Neck width

Acoustic Al · #1 10-04-2019, 09:56 PM

My two previous guitars have 1.68" necks and just recently picked up a new guitar with 1.75" neck. I know it might sound crazy, but I can feel a big difference between 1.68" and 1.75" neck width. So much so my hand cramps up playing the 1.75" for the first 1/2 hour until I push through it. I've also noticed if I'm in "auto pilot" iand I miss a chord ( with the wider neck) it can throw me way off for a few chords. Anyone else have a hard time transitioning? Funny thing is when I played it in the guitar shop I didn't notice the difference.

Cellomangler · #2 10-04-2019, 10:49 PM

I went from years on a Martin dred and then nabbed an Epiphone Masterbilt orchestra style that had a 1 3/4" nut.. and I was sold. I've since added a few more wider necked guitars including a Takamine that is 1 7/8" (1.875") wide. I have no trouble going between any of them - never did. I also have a 2" classical... again, no problem once I've warmed up for a few minutes.
Back to what you are saying about your experience... IMHO... I don't think it's the width (across the nut) that's giving you problems, but the shape or depth of the necks. My Tak's neck is rather beefy and it does make it a tad harder to bar some tricky cords. Maybe your thumb is ending up in a different place. And is the action and string gauge the same - just checking? Also a more slick neck can make you feel like you have to grip harder.
Maybe I'm just lucky that it never gave me any trouble... but I'd like to think you could work this out.

Howard Emerson · #3 10-05-2019, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acoustic Al

My two previous guitars have 1.68" necks and just recently picked up a new guitar with 1.75" neck. I know it might sound crazy, but I can feel a big difference between 1.68" and 1.75" neck width. So much so my hand cramps up playing the 1.75" for the first 1/2 hour until I push through it. I've also noticed if I'm in "auto pilot" iand I miss a chord ( with the wider neck) it can throw me way off for a few chords. Anyone else have a hard time transitioning? Funny thing is when I played it in the guitar shop I didn't notice the difference.

Al,
It would only seem crazy if you could NOT feel the difference.

You're 'suffering' from the typical failure of human logic vs the sensitivity of the human body.

Your mind thinks that .07" is nothing, but your hand says you don't know what you're talking about.

ALLWAYS LISTEN TO YOUR BODY & EARS, FIRST AND FOREMOST.

If the narrower neck feels better to you, then it is better for you. Don't listen to the hype spewed by others.

Regards,
Howard Emerson

M19 · #4 10-05-2019, 05:11 AM

Another vote for neck shape vs. width as the issue. I have 1-11/16 and 1-3/4 nut width guitars, and when I got my Gibson Parlor it was right in between. For the first few days, my hand would hurt after a bit of playing, most notably the thumb. After a week or two, I guess I "learned" how to play it because it doesn't bother me anymore.

It may also be arm/hand geometry, say if it 12 fret and your other was 14, or smaller bodied vs dred, etc. Elbow and wrist at different angles?

Then again, it could be nut width.

musicwu · #5 10-05-2019, 05:15 AM

In addition to the nut width, string spacing as well as neck profile also play quite a big role here. That said, give it some time and there is nothing you can't really adjust to.

zombywoof · #6 10-05-2019, 05:33 AM

When it comes to feel of the neck no argument that carve and nut width come into play. Also board radius and scale figure in..

The Bard Rocks · #7 10-05-2019, 06:08 AM

I bought a guitar a few years ago and it took me the best part of a year before I noticed it was 1 11/16 instead of 1 3/4. And it took me another year before I noticed that I just didn't play as accurately on it.

The differences feel, well different to different folks, meaning what screws one person up may not even be noticed by another.

Acoustic Al · #8 10-05-2019, 06:16 AM

All good points. Going to change the strings this weekend so newest guitar has same gauge. I didn't think of neck shape (duh) probably combo of all. I'm sure I can adapt. The guitar sounds awesome, but getting through the initial cramping is a Bi@ch. I read a thread about soaking your hands in hot water before playing to loosen up, might try that too.

musicman1951 · #9 10-05-2019, 06:30 AM

Some people think your hand can't feel/appreciate a 1/16" difference in width - and they are, of course, crazy people.

Everything matters. Comfort certainly matters. Since you played it with no problems in the shop it's possible that comfort is just around the corner.

I came to steel strings after many years of playing only classical, so they all felt small to me for a while. Many of us are most comfortable on 1 3/4, and you may be one of us. Time will tell.

Hand cramps from a different nut width sounds improbable to me - but I have unfortunately recently learned I don't know everything. Maybe neck thickness? Different nut making you use excess pressure?

Pain in the first 30 minutes would suggest something needs to change: either the technique or the guitar.

TRose · #10 10-05-2019, 06:44 AM

The smallest change in nut width is certainly noticeable.

My left hand cramps on shallower neck shapes regardless of nut width. Having a lower thumb position helps me with this at times. We are all different but I hope that helps.

Silly Moustache · #11 10-05-2019, 06:46 AM

Mr Emerson speaks with wisdom (as always).

for many years I struggled with 1 & 11/16" (1.6875") nut widths because it didn't occur to me that there was a choice.

When I changed my trusty D35 for a J-40 I discovered that such things as hammer ons and pull-offs which were difficult on my D35 were impossible on the J-40, which whilst having the same nut width, also have a very shallow neck profile.

I was fluffing and buzzing strings all over.

I was lent a Martin D35-S (12 fret dread) with a 1 & 7/8" nut width and it was a revelation to learn that there was a choice and string spacing (at both ends) was an important factor in finding my ideal guitar.

From 1996 until 1999 I searched, bout and sold various guitars that would suit MY hands and MY playing style.

I could not find a Martin D18/28/35-S on sale in the UK, Europe or the USA, found a wondrous Bourgeois DS260 (1 & 3/4" but too shallow a profile to suit) and finally discovered the Collings 12 fret dread series (1 & 13/16" with modified V profiles) which suit me perfectly, or as perfectly as I've found since.

It is a personal journey to find a guitar that is compatible with your hands and your style.

since the '30s most guitar company's have given us lots of guitar shapes and sizes but mostly foisted thin necks "rhythm" style necks on us because that's what we've been buying, because there was little choice.

Before the '30s guitars generally came with wider necks, and Martin have offered the 000,00 and 0 sand the occasional short run dreadnought in the original (12fret) designs with wider fretboards.

People instantly feel the difference and instantly react negatively without giving themselves time to adapt and learn the benefits.

I'm appalled that Martin have now discontinued the original designs, but glad that they've increased their standard necks to 1 & 3/4".

If I can give folks a bit of advice from an old man whose been playing , buying, selling guitars for longer than some have been alive. I'd say, don't settle for "standard issue" unless it really gives you what you need - BUT as your style and abilities increase, be prepare to look for something that suits you better.

Howard Emerson · #12 10-05-2019, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acoustic Al

All good points. Going to change the strings this weekend so newest guitar has same gauge. I didn't think of neck shape (duh) probably combo of all. I'm sure I can adapt. The guitar sounds awesome, but getting through the initial cramping is a Bi@ch. I read a thread about soaking your hands in hot water before playing to loosen up, might try that too.

Al,
The ensuing thread will, of course, be regarding the effects that soaking your hands will have on softening your callus buildup, and how that negatively impacts the feel of any given fretboard...so wear thin rubber gloves, or don't

:-)

Howard Emerson

Steve DeRosa · #13 10-05-2019, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

...Your mind thinks that .07" is nothing, but your hand says you don't know what you're talking about.

ALWAYS LISTEN TO YOUR BODY & EARS, FIRST AND FOREMOST.

If the narrower neck feels better to you, then it is better for you. Don't listen to the hype spewed by others...

- and that's why I prefer 1-11/16", 1-5/8" if I can get it...

Acoustic Al · #14 10-05-2019, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Al,
The ensuing thread will, of course, be regarding the effects that soaking your hands will have on softening your callus buildup, and how that negatively impacts the feel of any given fretboard...so wear thin rubber gloves, or don't

:-)

Howard Emerson

Lol! You sir are most likely correct. One must be careful not to derail original point.

gmel555 · #15 10-05-2019, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Al,
It would only seem crazy if you could NOT feel the difference.

You're 'suffering' from the typical failure of human logic vs the sensitivity of the human body.

Your mind thinks that .07" is nothing, but your hand says you don't know what you're talking about.

ALLWAYS LISTEN TO YOUR BODY & EARS, FIRST AND FOREMOST.

If the narrower neck feels better to you, then it is better for you. Don't listen to the hype spewed by others.

Regards,
Howard Emerson

Completely agree! Al, AGF is full of posts about feeling the difference.