Pickup for 60s Gibson Dove?

nickmew · #1 03-25-2018, 11:59 AM

So I've just picked up a gorgeous '68 Gibson Dove which I'd like to use on stage. The kind of stuff we play means a mic stuck in front of it is unlikely to do (it's pretty noisy) so now thinking about pickup options.
Although it doesn't have the full tune-o-matic bridge it still has a screw adjustable one rather than the fixed one on later Doves, so I'm guessing a UST ain't gonna fly.
I'm thinking maybe a K&K Trinity Pro (the one with the mic as well), but does anyone else have an old Dove reto-fitted and what do they use?
Cheers

windfall · #2 03-26-2018, 03:48 AM

I have a 12 year old Dove running a Baggs M1 Passive that I have always been very happy with.

nickmew · #3 03-26-2018, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windfall

I have a 12 year old Dove running a Baggs M1 Passive that I have always been very happy with.

Thanks for the reply. I hadn't actually considered a soundhole magnetic - I'd always thought I wanted to avoid sounding too 'electric' but maybe I haven't listened to more modern / better examples.
Do you think it carries enough of the natural guitar tone in a live setting?
I've got a Martin OOO15Me which I run through a Fishman Aura pedal using an image made for it, and I can get a very natural sound out of this. One of the reasons for getting the Dove is to have a distinctly different acoustic sound.

windfall · #4 03-26-2018, 07:24 AM

hi

I don't think the Baggs M1 gives an "electric" tone, though I would say it does capture more of the high end than something like a K&K mini does (I have a K&K in my Brook Torridge). The M1 definitely avoids the quack of a standard piezo. I tend to warm up the Dove a touch using my pre-amp (Baggs Venue) - just take the top frequencies off a little and to me it sounds very natural. Definitely worth considering.

I have a Dimarzio Black Angel which I have wired into an Anderwood acoustic lap steel - I would say that is another one well worth considering if you are going to think about soundhole pick ups.

nickmew · #5 03-26-2018, 08:05 AM

Thanks again for the reply. I've been listening around to some youtube clips and the M1 sounds pretty good - picks up lots of detail.

Given the K&Ks are somewhat harder to install and even harder to remove cleanly (certainly unlikely to be returnable), I'm thinking I'll order an M1 and possibly a Fishman Rare Earth Blend (which has a mic as well if I feel a need for a bit of acoustic love) to try.
I've realised that through the joys of a certain large online retailer I can get them tomorrow, they're both easy to fit temporarily and I can return either or both if they don't do the job!

Cheers, I'll let you know how I get on if you're interested

windfall · #6 03-26-2018, 08:18 AM

Rare Earth Blend gets good reviews. Do let me know how you get on, I am sure others would be interested too.

nickmew · #7 03-27-2018, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windfall

Rare Earth Blend gets good reviews. Do let me know how you get on, I am sure others would be interested too.

Out of interest - do you use a pre-amp on the M1, or go straight into an amp / PA? I'm assuming that it's best to use one

meb · #8 03-27-2018, 05:04 AM

When looking for a non-intrusive pickup for my Goodalls, I ended up
with the soundhole pickup solution. I use both the Black Angel and the M80.
They are interchangeable with the M1C2 endpin harness. Both are very
good. I mostly run the M80 passive. I use a preamp with both. The Black
Angel to me is a little cleaner and more resolving and pairs great with the
Baggs Venue or PADI. The M80 is a tad more forgiving and mates well
with the Venue, PADI, Mesa DI and just about anything I throw at it.
I have an M1 on hand also. It is similar in tone to the M80 and should
be fine, but the M80 is more resolving in the midrange. I definitely
prefer BA to the M1.

I like the idea of the preamp which gives me, not only some extra tone
shaping options, but also control over phase issues, a boost switch, etc.

BTW, I had the K&K Pure Mini in a couple of the them, but yanked it out.
I have had almost zero feedback issues with the Soundhole pickups.

Good luck.

windfall · #9 03-27-2018, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickmew

Out of interest - do you use a pre-amp on the M1, or go straight into an amp / PA? I'm assuming that it's best to use one

I would always recommend using a pre-amp. Even for OMs, I will take along my Baggs Venue and a lead so I can shape the tone (and also tune/mute/boost).

gfirob · #10 03-27-2018, 09:59 AM

If its about sound to you, you should really look at K&K's and a Tonedexter. Nothing can touch that combination as far as I can see. Look at the demos on Youtube.

nickmew · #11 03-27-2018, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfirob

If its about sound to you, you should really look at K&K's and a Tonedexter.

It is pretty much about the tone for me. I have a recording background so am used to teasing the best sounds with an array of different mics in somewhat more forgiving circumstances. I know live is a different matter, and we call all be guilty of spending more and more chasing smaller and smaller improvements in sound that most won't hear.... But but but - I hear it. And it bugs the hell out of me so I don't perform so well, which the punters definitely do hear.
It also feels a waste having a variety of very nice guitars that I've chosen as they have a variety of tones only to plug the **** things in and they all sound like the pickup.
Anyways.... Got and tried the Fishman Rare Earth Blend and Baggs M1. Afraid they're both going back. To me the Rare Earth magnetic pickup sounds, well magnetic - and not much like my Dove. In fact I also put it in my Martin and it sounded much more similar than I'd ever be comfortable with. To get anything like the natural tone of the guitar I was dialling nearly all mic (which did have a fairly nice sound I admit) but kinda defeats the purpose.
The M1 felt like a better sound - more responsive but still ultimately not what I'm looking for. I know the M80 I a better version but doubt it's going to get me there.
Ok, I know I'm not going to get the sound of a matched stereo pair of KM84s unless I'm standing in front of a pair of matched KM84s, but ultimately I'm aiming for as close as I can get.

So back to the ToneDexter. As I currently use a Fishman Aura with the Martin, I'd ask if it does as good a job?
Currently you can't get them this side of the pond (UK), so with that alongside our self inflicted currency depreciation due to Brexit idiocy getting one is a fair investment.
If a Tonedexter could replace the Aura and work with both the Martin's UST as well as a K&k in the Dove it could be worth it. I'd probably even go ahead and get the Trinity fitted in the Dove whilst sourcing one in the short term.

Al Acuff · #12 03-27-2018, 05:27 PM

Here's a simple solution: A DiMarzio Black Angel or a Sunrise pickup. Both are available with long cords so that you don't have to install a jack in your guitar unless you want to.

I bought a Black Angel for my '49 Gibson J45 because I don't want to install a jack. The PU is a joy to play. It's detailed, dynamic and sounds a lot like the guitar.

gfirob · #13 03-27-2018, 10:39 PM

Regarding the Tonedexter, it does a much better job than the Aura, and it works with all your guitars, specifically for your guitar(s). You make a custom wavemap for each one regardless of the pickup, as long as it is not magnetic. They are working on getting them sold in the UK, but a couple of guys there have arranged a purchase, but I do not know how, whether through the company or friends in the US. Look at the demos on Youtube, particularly the one by Doug Young. They are completely accurate. The friends I have here that have tried mine out are genuinely amazed. It is certainly worth a look and worth the money.

nickmew · #14 03-28-2018, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Acuff

Here's a simple solution: A DiMarzio Black Angel or a Sunrise pickup. Both are available with long cords so that you don't have to install a jack in your guitar unless you want to.

I bought a Black Angel for my '49 Gibson J45 because I don't want to install a jack. The PU is a joy to play. It's detailed, dynamic and sounds a lot like the guitar.

Hiya. Thanks for the suggestion. TBH it's not the fitting of a jack that's the problem, it's that the adjustable saddle pretty much precludes a UST as part of the solution. That and my obsessiveness with an 'acoustic' tone, whatever that means

I've had a listen to some samples of the DiMarzio and realistically I think along with the other Baggs / Fishman / name your company there is just something about the magnetic soundhole sound that doesn't do it for me.
The same way some people can't abide any piezo 'quack' - I just don't get on with it.
Don't get me wrong - with my electrics I'm a pickup nerd and have tried and sourced all sorts and loved many but to me, at least, the pickup is always a bigger component and part of the sound on an electric. With an acoustic I always wanted to effectively make the pickup aurally invisible, if that makes sense

nickmew · #15 03-28-2018, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfirob

Regarding the Tonedexter, it does a much better job than the Aura, and it works with all your guitars, specifically for your guitar(s). You make a custom wavemap for each one regardless of the pickup, as long as it is not magnetic. They are working on getting them sold in the UK, but a couple of guys there have arranged a purchase, but I do not know how, whether through the company or friends in the US. Look at the demos on Youtube, particularly the one by Doug Young. They are completely accurate. The friends I have here that have tried mine out are genuinely amazed. It is certainly worth a look and worth the money.

OK, I've had a look at the online demos of the Tonedexter and

from me. I'm fairly sure Doug Young can be trusted in presenting it honestly.
Such a pain you can't them get them direct over here, or even just try them out.
There are a couple of European dealers - but too far to visit - so I think it may just be a case of emptying the wallet and going for it.
All paid up once taxes and duty are counted for it's going to cost equivalent of $580 US, just for the Tonedexter before I fit pickups to drive it. Ouch. Suffering for my art

Still, on the flip-side when I negotiated for my Gibson Dove - the purchase of which started this whole thread - I'm pretty sure I saved more than that, and I could also get a few pennies for my Fishman Aura.

One question remains though - just noticed that it says on their website

Quote:

ToneDexter only works with piezo pickups found in most acoustic instruments, not magnetic pickups.

As previously said the Dove's adjustable saddle means a UST won't fit - hopefully the K&K Pure mini SBT should work. Think I'll ask Audio Sprockets directly just to be completely sure as I'd be buying blind (apologies if I've missed that someone is using exactly this).

If I do go for it I will let you all know how I get on. I can see many happy (or wasted) hours playing with my mic collection training different images...