Side Bending Machine Vs Bending Iron

[SnowManSnow]

Talk to me about the pros and cons of simply using a bending iron vs a side bending machine.
Assume the individual in question wants to make more than a few guitars.
Is the side bending machine something that would eventually end up being purchased after much consternation and frustration anyway?

B

[funkymonk#9]

I like to think there is a third option in the middle and that is using heating blankets with your own molds, cauls and clamps (or spring system). Plus you don't have to rely on standard size specs generally sold.

For the beginner I would think the mold is more intuitive, meaning there is less of a learning curve. I haven't done side bending by heating iron, but i would think after getting the movements of it, it would become second nature as well.

[SnowManSnow]

Originally Posted by funkymonk#9

I like to think there is a third option in the middle and that is using heating blankets with your own molds, cauls and clamps (or spring system). Plus you don't have to rely on standard size specs generally sold.

For the beginner I would think the mold is more intuitive, meaning there is less of a learning curve. I haven't done side bending by heating iron, but i would think after getting the movements of it, it would become second nature as well.

in my researching i can see how each method would require craftsmanship and technique.

[kencierp]

In my opinion if you are going forward in the craft you need both a pipe and a Fox Style bender -- DIY versions are an easy project and work just as good as the commercial units

Here's a thread with a lot of info on the subject:

http://acousticguitarconstructionfor...wforum.php?f=8

[TEK]

I have bent sides with a hot iron and with a heating blanket and form. For me the heating blanket and mold way resulted in sides that were much flatter. I worry less about cracking sides with the blanket.
Travis

[redir]

I only ever use a hot pipe. Even though I'm not really good at it, it happens to be one of my favorite things to do when making a guitar. But if I was cranking out 40 guitars a year I'd probably invest in a bending machine of various shapes and sizes.

I like the pipe method as I like to work on an open board or solera because it allows me to quickly change shapes without too much investment. But I only build about 3 guitars a year too.

So what I am tying to say based on my experience is that if you are a hobbiest and like the old world traditions then use a hot pipe. If you are more of a type A perfectionist and or want to crank out a bunch of the same model guitars build a machine

[Bruce Sexauer]

I use both on almost every guitar. Building a fox bender took me about four hours, though I have modified it a number of times subsequently. LMII sells the plans and a parts kit. Making a new set of forms for it is less than an hours work.

The bending iron I use is a six inch long piece of 2 1/2" steel pipe heated with a propane torch. Same piece of pipe for 45 years now! It has participated in about 450 instruments. I use it for odd sized instruments, for all cutaways, and for subtle shape adjustment. Also for the bend in my standard back strap "volume".

Either system could do all the work equally well, but tweaking shapes with a fox bender means making new forms, and getting it right on the first set is unlikely.

[tahoeguitar]

I have a stewmac electric hot pipe bender for spot work, and I use molds and a heating blanket for production work. You can check out a little bit of my bending process here in this build thread. It's near the end of the first page.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=420930

A stainless backer sheet is essential IMO. The photos make it look complicated but it's not. First I bend the waist using the upper shoulder of the mold, then I flip the side and do the other two bends. The mold has a 1/2" wooden rim and I use little wooden cauls with spring clamps to clamp the side to the mold while it cools. The spring clamps shown in the other thread are kind of overkill but they work just fine and I use them for lots of other things so I've never got around to buying lighter ones for the bending process.

[SnowManSnow]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

I use both on almost every guitar. Building a fox bender took me about four hours, though I have modified it a number of times subsequently. LMII sells the plans and a parts kit. Making a new set of forms for it is less than an hours work.

The bending iron I use is a six inch long piece of 2 1/2" steel pipe heated with a propane torch. Same piece of pipe for 45 years now! It has participated in about 450 instruments. I use it for odd sized instruments, for all cutaways, and for subtle shape adjustment. Also for the bend in my standard back strap "volume".

Either system could do all the work equally well, but tweaking shapes with a fox bender means making new forms, and getting it right on the first set is unlikely.

it is interesting that you mention LMII. I was just looking over their benders yesterday and ran across the delux... it is nearly $700 I think, but I can see how it would be an investment. that being said i am TOTALLY an amateur at this.. I do have better than basic wood working / tool skills since I've always been around it...

I understand the basic principle of bending sides w a pipe bender, but it seems it would be really hard to keep the side strait...and not twisted in some way.

I remember when I stated playing back in HS. I inherited an old Yamaha guitar, and although I didn't know it at the time, that thing play HORRIBLY haha. HIGH action...stiff.. just no set up. Now that instrument didn't keep me from pushing on, thank goodness, but I understand how the right tools in the beginning can make a BIG difference in the learning curve department.

thanks for the thoughts guys... keep it coming!

[SnowManSnow]

here's the machine i referenced up top.
http://www.lmii.com/products/tools-s...machine-deluxe
this comes with spring steel sheets, blankets, heater... everything.

on a side note I'm stoked to be meeting with a local luthier tomorrow !

[Halcyon/Tinker]

Start with a scrap pipe from the local yard and a propane torch.

You should learn a bit about bending wood to your will before using the fox style bender, simply for your own edification if you choose to pursue this more aggressively.

If you should choose to pursue it, (countless numbers begin, then quit, after realizing how much work and toil is involved), then get or build a fox style bender, as it's the bees knees.

But don't invest that cake until you're certain you want to make a go of it...imo

[redir]

Originally Posted by SnowManSnow

it is interesting that you mention LMII. I was just looking over their benders yesterday and ran across the delux... it is nearly $700 I think, but I can see how it would be an investment. that being said i am TOTALLY an amateur at this.. I do have better than basic wood working / tool skills since I've always been around it...

I understand the basic principle of bending sides w a pipe bender, but it seems it would be really hard to keep the side strait...and not twisted in some way.

I remember when I stated playing back in HS. I inherited an old Yamaha guitar, and although I didn't know it at the time, that thing play HORRIBLY haha. HIGH action...stiff.. just no set up. Now that instrument didn't keep me from pushing on, thank goodness, but I understand how the right tools in the beginning can make a BIG difference in the learning curve department.

thanks for the thoughts guys... keep it coming!

Twisting is probably the least of the issues you will encounter. In fact I don't think it's ever been a problem on the 50 plus guitars I've made. But flat spots and cracks are certainly more common. Each can be fixed of course. But even if you don't make perfect bends you can use a little force as necessary to match your template.

I don't think I've ever built a perfectly lined out shape on a hot pipe and often with my eye I can see left right discrepancies but most people don't notice it and those who do tend to like it for it's hand made value...

You can also use SUper Soft to aid in the bending process. I've not tried it but I think I will with some of the highly figured sets I have.

[SnowManSnow]

Originally Posted by Halcyon/Tinker

Start with a scrap pipe from the local yard and a propane torch.

You should learn a bit about bending wood to your will before using the fox style bender, simply for your own edification if you choose to pursue this more aggressively.

If you should choose to pursue it, (countless numbers begin, then quit, after realizing how much work and toil is involved), then get or build a fox style bender, as it's the bees knees.

But don't invest that cake until you're certain you want to make a go of it...imo

Well it won't be an out of the gate purchase I think.
You're right. You never know what you're getting into until you get your feet wet


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[emmsone]

Because I have no space to build in a single room apartment, i'm building my guitar in a public access woodwork shop. They were decidedly not keen on me using the blowtorch and heated pipe idea and I could not afford the heating blankets/mould based benders so i ended up with an electrically heated aluminium bending iron for about 1/4 the outlay of the other options. So far what i've discovered in the 1 guitar i'm in the middle of building was that

a) if you mark out where you want your sides to be bent with parallel contour lines drawn across the sides spaced closer for tight bends and further for straighter areas before you bend the sides it makes it pretty easy to follow while you are bending and you don't have to revisit the mould every 17 seconds to check how you are going.

2) some woods bend easier then others, my sides were walnut, it all went fairly easily. My bindings are bloodwood and bending them on the bending iron has been/is a nightmare

thirdly) its quite a relaxing process and gives you a good sense of accomplishment, especially on a first build.

d) ideally you'd have both options, i definitely want to get a mould/shape/heating blanket based bending system in the future for further guitars, but I am certain i can do the job without for the moment and I have numerous other tools I need/may need to purchase that would take priority in the meanwhile.

[SnowManSnow]

Looks like I need to pull the trigger and sell that Taylor 314ce-n to get me some tools she's a lot of fun, but doesn't see a lot of action. Hmmmm


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