Yamaha: Vintage vs New?

[Perchman]

I’m still in a honeymoon phase with my Gibson J35. But we’re heading to the beach for next week and I’m bringing my FG450s. So last night I wanted to check the strings and played it for about an hour. I’ve said it before on here, I’m not ever going to sell or trade that guitar. I don’t know if it’s the radius or what, but it’s the easiest guitar to play that I own. Not the deepest or most complex tones, but respectable to any discerning ear for sure. Find a good used FG and enjoy!

[Everton FC]

I own two "vintage" Yamahas, and have played the new ones. I think the sound, the tone, is totally different. They are not the same guitars (obviously).

I think my answer is that they are different sounding guitars. The lower end FGs they are making now are great. A friend has a solid top F310, and it sounded very good. If I had to choose, I like my 331 better than the new FGs - just like the sound, the feel. Nothing to do w/"mojo", or wanting to be "cool" on and old Yamaha. I'd probably go with a newer "L" series versus my L5A - I had an LL6 a while back, and while it was a nice guitar, I couldn't bond with it, and sold it. To each his own, as the saying goes...

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Everton FC

I own two "vintage" Yamahas, and have played the new ones. I think the sound, the tone, is totally different. They are not the same guitars (obviously).

I think my answer is that they are different sounding guitars. The lower end FGs they are making now are great. A friend has a solid top F310, and it sounded very good. If I had to choose, I like my 331 better than the new FGs - just like the sound, the feel. Nothing to do w/"mojo", or wanting to be "cool" on and old Yamaha. I'd probably go with a newer "L" series versus my L5A - I had an LL6 a while back, and while it was a nice guitar, I couldn't bond with it, and sold it. To each his own, as the saying goes...

Unless I'm mistaken I think you'll find the F310 is all-laminate.

[sjm1580]

Does anyone know if there is a difference between the LL16 and the LL26 and higher models other than window dressing?

[SlopeD]

Originally Posted by sjm1580

Does anyone know if there is a difference between the LL16 and the LL26 and higher models other than window dressing?

16 china 28 japan

[Nyghthawk]

I believe anything LL26 and above are MIJ versus MIC.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by sjm1580

Does anyone know if there is a difference between the LL16 and the LL26 and higher models other than window dressing?

Hand built in Japan by an individual luthier per guitar (26 and up), versus Chinese production line manufacture (6 and 16).

[Cool555]

I used to own an LS16. Yes it is made in China. I’m looking at the Yamaha online e-shop where I live. There is no LL26. There’s LL36 and LL56, both are MIJ.

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by sjm1580

Last year I purchased an LS-6 for $350 to drag to the beach, rv, fire pit, etc. I really, really like the guitar and find myself playing it more than my other guitars that cost 5 to 10 times what I paid for her. Although the LS-6 doesn't have the same breadth of tone than its stable mates have, it is a joy to play.

So, I have been researching another Yamaha purchase, both the vintage options, FG's, LA's etc. and the higher end new models.

Since there is not a good source of Yamaha guitars near me, should I concentrate on the new market or go vintage? With the advent of CNC machines and current technology for the new models, even the Chinese made options seem very good. Are the vintage handmade MIJ models worth the effort and risk of buying vintage? Is the vintage sound like the pre-war Martin versus current model comparison?

Thank you for any advice!

Hi sjm1580

So here is my take on your question, informed by having owned a number of Yamaha's over my 47 years of playing, including owning a late 60's FG-580, an early 70's FG-331, an early 80's LL-35, 3 different...and all terrific...mid/late 2000's FG-730's, and currently, a late 70's/early 80's L-20A...and playing, but not owning, countless others along the way.

A lot depends on what sound/tone you want. If you want vintage Martin tone...warm, deep, dry, bell like, fundamental, medium sustain...you want the late 60's/early 70's FG series Yamaha's.

Once Yamaha switched to the L series designation, their tone dynamic changed towards more sustain, more lush, more harmonics, more overtones, more bright and crisp, and has only gotten a bit more so with the switch to the LL designation, so now the LL series guitars a much more in the "modern" voicing tone like Breedlove, Goodall, Taylor pre V-Class bracing. My experience with Japanese players is that by and large, they prefer the more modern voicing, so that is the voice most...not all...but most Japanese guitar makers favor. Most Japanese fingerstyle players are slap and tap style...or Kotaro Oshio's "nail attack" percussive style, so the modern voicing tone works better for them.

The MIJ Yamaha's and even the Taiwan made Yamaha's of that era are terrific and well worth your consideration, and are super well made and hold up really really well. No worries with them beyond the normal aging issues like neck angles, fret ware...just normal stuff.

So...it mostly comes down to looks and tone for you. What you like the look of, and the sound of.

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by sjm1580

Last year I purchased an LS-6 for $350 to drag to the beach, rv, fire pit, etc. I really, really like the guitar and find myself playing it more than my other guitars that cost 5 to 10 times what I paid for her. Although the LS-6 doesn't have the same breadth of tone than its stable mates have, it is a joy to play.

So, I have been researching another Yamaha purchase, both the vintage options, FG's, LA's etc. and the higher end new models.

Since there is not a good source of Yamaha guitars near me, should I concentrate on the new market or go vintage? With the advent of CNC machines and current technology for the new models, even the Chinese made options seem very good. Are the vintage handmade MIJ models worth the effort and risk of buying vintage? Is the vintage sound like the pre-war Martin versus current model comparison?

Thank you for any advice!

Your LS-6 is roughly a 000 size body with solid top and laminate back so it will pack some extra punch and have good note and string separation, so I’m not surprised you like it very much.

In my opinion the new Yamahas feature an ultra thin high tech finish, usually gloss, which is an overall improvement for future aging and performance.

Just my 2 cents.

[Everton FC]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Unless I'm mistaken I think you'll find the F310 is all-laminate.

Yeah, I thought so, too. And perhaps it is. In fact, I think it is. But when I looked at the soundhole, it looked like solid wood. Regardless, it was a decent player.

[sjm1580]

Originally Posted by mcduffnw

Hi sjm1580

So here is my take on your question, informed by having owned a number of Yamaha's over my 47 years of playing, including owning a late 60's FG-580, an early 70's FG-331, an early 80's LL-35, 3 different...and all terrific...mid/late 2000's FG-730's, and currently, a late 70's/early 80's L-20A...and playing, but not owning, countless others along the way.

A lot depends on what sound/tone you want. If you want vintage Martin tone...warm, deep, dry, bell like, fundamental, medium sustain...you want the late 60's/early 70's FG series Yamaha's.

Once Yamaha switched to the L series designation, their tone dynamic changed towards more sustain, more lush, more harmonics, more overtones, more bright and crisp, and has only gotten a bit more so with the switch to the LL designation, so now the LL series guitars a much more in the "modern" voicing tone like Breedlove, Goodall, Taylor pre V-Class bracing. My experience with Japanese players is that by and large, they prefer the more modern voicing, so that is the voice most...not all...but most Japanese guitar makers favor. Most Japanese fingerstyle players are slap and tap style...or Kotaro Oshio's "nail attack" percussive style, so the modern voicing tone works better for them.

The MIJ Yamaha's and even the Taiwan made Yamaha's of that era are terrific and well worth your consideration, and are super well made and hold up really really well. No worries with them beyond the normal aging issues like neck angles, fret ware...just normal stuff.

So...it mostly comes down to looks and tone for you. What you like the look of, and the sound of.

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

Thank you for the information, that answers a lot of the questions I had, but did not think to pose in my original post.

To follow up, if you are familiar with the Martin OM21, could you make a recommendation as to what model of Yamaha would closest to that "warm, deep, dry, bell like, fundamental, medium sustain"? I have a Martin D28 (a little too much bottom end dominant for me) and a Bourgeois vintage OM (love the overall sound but not the neck profile and overall feel)?

Thank you for reading my mind and answering the questions I should have asked!

Steve

[sjm1580]

Originally Posted by Perchman

I’m still in a honeymoon phase with my Gibson J35. But we’re heading to the beach for next week and I’m bringing my FG450s. So last night I wanted to check the strings and played it for about an hour. I’ve said it before on here, I’m not ever going to sell or trade that guitar. I don’t know if it’s the radius or what, but it’s the easiest guitar to play that I own. Not the deepest or most complex tones, but respectable to any discerning ear for sure. Find a good used FG and enjoy!

Thank you!

[sjm1580]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Your LS-6 is roughly a 000 size body with solid top and laminate back so it will pack some extra punch and have good note and string separation, so I’m not surprised you like it very much.

In my opinion the new Yamahas feature an ultra thin high tech finish, usually gloss, which is an overall improvement for future aging and performance.

Just my 2 cents.

I see you have an OM21, as I did, really, really liked that guitar's tone, but prefer the neck profile of the LS-6. Ohh to be able to combine the best of worlds and find that perfect one!

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by sjm1580

Thank you for the information, that answers a lot of the questions I had, but did not think to pose in my original post.

To follow up, if you are familiar with the Martin OM21, could you make a recommendation as to what model of Yamaha would closest to that "warm, deep, dry, bell like, fundamental, medium sustain"? I have a Martin D28 (a little too much bottom end dominant for me) and a Bourgeois vintage OM (love the overall sound but not the neck profile and overall feel)?

Thank you for reading my mind and answering the questions I should have asked!

Steve

Hi Steve

Do you want that OM size, or just the tone profile of that OM-21.

If you want the OM size, and want the more vintage tone, the one main vintage guitar that Yamaha made was the FG-1500, they are all solid wood, and brazilian rosewood back and sides. They are gorgeous...look them up...but not cheap.

If you could go for the dread size, but which model depends on you budget

What is your price range you want to stay in?

duff