Yanking Out the SBTs Next Year?

guitaniac · #1 12-31-2009, 07:07 AM

Could be a lot of SBT yanking going on next year if this new Baggs system is as good as claimed. They say the Anthem system is due out in the spring.
http://www.lrbaggs.com/anthem/

Note that the Anthem mic is placed right on the bridgeplate, under the saddle, where the K&K SBTs, the PUTW SBT, the B-Band AST and the Baggs iBeam are placed for optimum performance.

If nothing else, the demo recordings show that this will be an excellent pickup system to record with. I'm going to have to try the Anthem in my Taylor. It may be good for gigging as well. AG mag's Teja Gerken said it seemed "impressive, both in terms of tone and feedback resistance" for the demonstration which he heard at the Baggs facility.
http://www.acousticguitar.com/ubbcgi...c;f=1;t=030036

Gary

RustyAxe · #2 12-31-2009, 08:08 AM

Maybe ... time will tell. My first impression is that I'd never hang that much mass off the bridge plate ... depending on what it weighs it would have to have an effect on the guitar's unamplified tone and it's dimensions might make it unusable in some guitars with small bridge plates (like my D-18GE).

rmyAddison · #3 12-31-2009, 08:23 AM

It does sound very good, but there is some "slight" metalic tone, way better than most though, interesting for sure.

We'll see when it comes out, definitely want to hear one live. Thanks for the post.

66strummer · #4 12-31-2009, 05:19 PM

Nice comparison. This is a stand alone mic, Gary? No need for a second source then? I'll be interested to see what the system runs $$$. Doubt I'll ever get to hear one live though, unless I buy one. I seem to be the only one around here (where I live) using aftermarket dual source rigs and SBT's in guitars. Most people seemingly just go out and buy Taylors and other pre-installed equipped brands for plugged-in sound...... Thanks for the heads up and for giving me "pickup GAS"

. See how you are???

kramster · #5 12-31-2009, 06:01 PM

I see how he is... quit it!

guitaniac · #6 12-31-2009, 07:45 PM

Hi Ryan,

The Baggs Anthem system is a dual source system in which (according to the Baggs info page) the Element UST is used to supply the very low end. To quote the Baggs folks directly "The mic is augmented, for only the very lowest frequencies, by our Element undersaddle pickup." (Go to the link and click on "details" to get this nitty gritty stuff.)

Although I can't tell you what "very lowest frequencies" means specifically, its safe to assume that much less of the signal is supplied by the UST than with typical mic/UST systems, or with the B-Band A2.2 UST/AST system which gets all frequencies below 800Hz from the UST (regardless of the blend setting).

The Baggs claim is that the mic is SO feedback resistant that it can supply most of the signal in high volume settings. If that's true, this is a very different beast from other dual source UST/mic and UST/SBT dual source rigs.

In any event, it will be great if the Anthem system is everything that the Baggs folks are claiming for it. Afterall, its an aftermarket system which can be fit to most guitars. One wouldn't be stuck with having to purchase a specific make of new guitar in order to get the latest, greatest pickup system.

I'm personally drawn to the Baggs claim "that the natural ease and dynamics of the Anthem Tru Mic liberates you to play freely without having to compensate for the pickup system". That's something which I suspect that I'm missing with a digitally processed single-source UST.

Gary

66strummer · #7 01-01-2010, 12:19 AM

Does sound like a similar idea to the A2.2 preamp, Gary. They're routing those lowest frequencies to the more feedback resistant UST. I'll bet that rig is going to be near $300 at least. Well worth it for someone who uses 1 guitar but kind of expensive if you want to equip 2 or more.......and if it sounds as good as mentioned I would imagine it might make your (our) other rigs sound sort of crappy

. Thanks again, Gary (no sarcasm there.....honest)

.

guitaniac · #8 01-01-2010, 09:21 AM

Hi Ryan,

Lets say, for the sake of argument, that the Anthem system does end up having a street price of $300. $300 is probably less than the difference between what my beat-up Taylor is worth to me, and what I'd get for it if I tried selling it to raise $$$ to buy a Cole Clark or ART-equipped Yamaha. If the price is within reason, I'll be thrilled if the Anthem system happens to be everything the Baggs folks claim it is. It'll mean that I can put a state-of-the-art system in the guitar(s) of my choice.

Designing an aftermarket pickup system is especially challenging because the pickup designer has no say in the host guitar's design. That's where guitar companies like Cole Clark and Yamaha have a definite advantage. They can design the guitars, to some extent, to accomodate their proprietary pickup systems. If the Baggs folks can come up with an equally effective one-size-fits-all or one-size-fits-most pickup system, they deserve a lot of credit.

Gary

little rowboat · #9 01-01-2010, 05:26 PM

i guess count me as a skeptic...I think if you want to use a mic, use a real mic externally...the mic that deep inside the guitar could sound really boomy and not get the high end and string attack.

David Eastwood · #10 01-01-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by little rowboat

i guess count me as a skeptic...I think if you want to use a mic, use a real mic externally...the mic that deep inside the guitar could sound really boomy and not get the high end and string attack.

With all due respect, do you really think that the folks at Baggs haven't taken things like that into account in the design of this system? I don't think they just slap these things together for the sake of it...

66strummer · #11 01-01-2010, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eatswodo

With all due respect, do you really think that the folks at Baggs haven't taken things like that into account in the design of this system? I don't think they just slap these things together for the sake of it...

True....... especially after the feedback problems often mentioned with the Baggs Ibeam. I would guess this design has been carefully thought out. I have a feeling the Ibeam may have been a disappointment overall. The problem is that all guitars aren't created equally. What feeds back in 1 guitar might be perfect for another. It's almost like IMO this internal mic should have a gain sensitivity that you Pre-set according to the "boominess" of the guitar it's going into (maybe it does?)....... Then again the lowest frequencies are channeled to the UST, so maybe that's all that is necessary to handle feedback problems. I guess we'll see when some of these are out on the market later this year. Hopefully Doug Young can get his hands on one for some recording demos.......

Joseph Hanna · #12 01-01-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by little rowboat

i guess count me as a skeptic...I think if you want to use a mic, use a real mic externally...the mic that deep inside the guitar could sound really boomy and not get the high end and string attack.

A mic used externally is effective in a miniscule amount of situations for a miniscule amount of guitars and guitar players.

The MANY times I've tried to incorporate a mic into my live sound I've had a zillion problems to deal with before I ever got to the point of worrying about "getting high end and string attack".

It just doesn't work that way. Hence the endless parade of manufactures attempting to re-create the "mic" effect in a live setting.

Here's to Lloyd being on to something.

guitaniac · #13 01-01-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66strummer

It's almost like IMO this internal mic should have a gain sensitivity that you Pre-set according to the "boominess" of the guitar it's going into (maybe it does?)....... Then again the lowest frequencies are channeled to the UST, so maybe that's all that is necessary to handle feedback problems. I guess we'll see when some of these are out on the market later this year. Hopefully Doug Young can get his hands on one for some recording demos.......

If you look at the closeup of the mic's bottom, it appears that there are some adjustment screws in there.

With regard to recorded demos, the raw (unprocessed) John Standefer recordings were done with a similar protocol to Doug's, the difference being that there's a lot more of it and a good deal of stylistic variety. What the recordings don't tell you (and what Doug's recordings don't tell you either) is how the system will work in a live situation where the guitar top is interacting strongly with speaker sound. That will be the ultimate test.

Gary

guitaniac · #14 01-01-2010, 07:29 PM

One of the Baggs beta testers, Michael Millham, just offered his personal observations on the Anthem system in this AG Mag Gear Forum thread.
http://www.acousticguitar.com/ubbcgi...c;f=1;t=030036

You'll also find some comments from AG Mag Managing Editor Teja Gerken on the first page. Teja refers to a live demo at the Baggs facility.

Gary

little rowboat · #15 01-02-2010, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eatswodo

With all due respect, do you really think that the folks at Baggs haven't taken things like that into account in the design of this system? I don't think they just slap these things together for the sake of it...

I said i was skeptical, not jonny raincloud...and yes, I believe they take such things into account...but they take all kinds of things into account, like marketing and selling points to folks such as us. I wasnt trying to pass judgement on an item I obviously havent played, but I HAVE played on about three dozen multiple source pickups arrangements, and EVERY ONE with an internal mic has had issues which were extremely difficult to overcome.

So, if you are convinced this is the holy grail, great, can wait to hear your review...until then, spare me the outrage, because online sound samples mixed with Baggs past record will not sell me on it at this point...