Saddle shims

[airborne1]

Having read a recent thread about saddle shims and their effect on tone has posed a question for me.

Many respondents thought shims were not a detriment to tone, in fact, Bob Colosi sells shim kits.

My question is, why don’t manufacturers ship guitars with the action set to the lower end, and provide shims for those who prefer higher action?

Other than cost to the manufacturer, which in turn would up the price to the consumer, what is the down side?

What am I missing here?

[Wellington]

I'm no expert, but Shims seem like a quick fix solution, that I personally am 100% fine with, but a new proper cut saddle is probably the proper solution.

[Scott of the Sa]

It is a good idea. I bought an Ovation that came with factory shims.
I use them to change saddle height when needed due to weather changes.

[OPJ77]

They ship with high action so they don’t buzz when being played in guitar stores, or when new out of the box. Not much they can do about humidity and temperature variances. I think it wouldnt be bad to ship em with a decent shim already under the saddle.

[Boozehound]

I consider a saddle shim to be an acceptable temporary solution, but not an ideal long term solution. Saddles are pretty cheap and easy to replace.

In general guitars ship with higher action so they don't buzz, and because it's easier to adjust action down. A good shop would check over all higher end guitar upon receipt and acclimatization and adjust as necessary, unfortunately few seem to actually do that.

[Robin, Wales]

Each time you drop in a shim you effectively make the slot shallower. If you make the slot too shallow that could cause the bridge to split under string pressure, particularly if the saddle is leaning forward at all in the slot (i.e not a snug fit). That said, there is normally enough leeway for thin shims.

[therbulus]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

Each time you drop in a shim you effectively make the slot shallower. If you make the slot too shallow that could cause the bridge to split under string pressure, particularly if the saddle is leaning forward at all in the slot (i.e not a snug fit). That said, there is normally enough leeway for thin shims.

Funny you should say that. Last year the bridge on my Martin developed cracks on both sides of the saddle and the saddle was leaning forward. The Martin repair guy that replaced it thought it could have been because there was a shim underneath (which I hadn't known).

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by airborne1

Having read a recent thread about saddle shims and their effect on tone has posed a question for me.

Many respondents thought shims were not a detriment to tone, in fact, Bob Colosi sells shim kits.

My question is, why don’t manufacturers ship guitars with the action set to the lower end, and provide shims for those who prefer higher action?

Other than cost to the manufacturer, which in turn would up the price to the consumer, what is the down side?

What am I missing here?

What are you missing? Shims under a saddle can make your guitar sound like poo.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by airborne1

…why don’t manufacturers ship guitars with the action set to the lower end, and provide shims for those who prefer higher action?

What am I missing here?

Hi airborne1

Ovation used to put plastic shims under their saddles in a stack. It wasn't a big 'hit' nor influence in the guitar community.

My experience is well prepped shims (made of hard wood) do not change the tonal characteristics of even a bone saddle when too much material has been removed from the bottom.

My initial thought as to what you (or me) may be missing was that saddles are so inexpensive (compared to anything else we do to our instruments) why would anyone go to the bother of shimming it (other than as a temporary measure).

If replacement saddles made of man-made-materials cost $150-200 each (plus labor) there'd be a whole lot more shimming going on.

I still have a saddle in my guitar bits-n-pieces drawer which was shimmed about 17 years back. I planned to use it as a seasonal replacement, but it was shimmed in summer (the least troublesome time for action).

Soon after, that particular guitar had the first 6 frets replaced and the saddle slot filled and re-cut with the bass end 2mm further back for intonation's sake. This rendered the shimmed saddle useless since the intonation points which were carved into it needed to be shifted

One of my guitars is still wearing a saddle with a shim glued to the underside…properly shaped and fitted to the slot - probably 10-12 yrs back.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

What are you missing? Shims under a saddle can make your guitar sound like poo.

Hi Rudy4…
I taught fingerstyle guitar locally for 40 years, and the notable times shims affected the 'tone' of student's guitars were:

• When a couple of them were made from irregular width slices of a credit card
• When they were made from a sliver of a popsicle stick (cut to fit with a sheet-rock knife)
• When they were cut with a hack saw and one end was thicker than the other
• When the saddle they were inserted underneath was broken in half
• When one was made of an aluminum gum wrapper folded and refolded and stuck under the saddle (and didn't fill the slot)
• When the bottom of the saddle slot was not properly leveled
• When a piece of the bottom of the saddle was broken out

When actual (intact) saddles were properly prepped, and the shims were properly fashioned and glued to the bottom of the properly prepped saddle, they were indistinguishable from the original.

[L20A]

I have removed shims and also UST pickups from guitars.
The results were noticeable.
The guitars sounded more open and louder.

I will never accept a shim as a way to change the height of a saddle.
I did once own a guitar that came with two saddles. One was a bit taller than the other one.
This is a much better answer than a shim is.

[Terry_D]

The proper way to shim a saddle isn't to just drop a strip of some material in the saddle slot and reinsert the saddle on top of it. I super glue a thin strip of ebony to the bottom of the saddle and then sand the excess off along with any excess height the shim is causing. It's more labor intensive, but then most things worth doing are.

[DanR]

I bought an ebony shim kit from Bob Colosi for my J-45. The shim worked well with no audible detriment to the tone.

[srbell]

Anyone that can hear the difference a properly done shim makes has far better hearing than me. I'm not talking about a gum wrapper under a saddle, but a shim of suitable material that is properly attached to the saddle and fitted.

[airborne1]

Originally Posted by Terry_D

The proper way to shim a saddle isn't to just drop a strip of some material in the saddle slot and reinsert the saddle on top of it. I super glue a thin strip of ebony to the bottom of the saddle and then sand the excess off along with any excess height the shim is causing. It's more labor intensive, but then most things worth doing are.

How very true!