Collings CJ45AT

[JerryM]

Hey out there anyone own one or had the chance to play one? Saw some YT video on them and sure sounded nice.

[Rev Roy]

They’ve been chatting about them for months on the Collings forum.
https://www.collingsforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=940

[AMW]

They're very fine, with a lot of tonal nuance. I personally don't hear a big leap forward from the CJ-35, and I think that this neck is more specific (very large in the first position) and won't work for everyone.

The few CJ-45Ts that have come through have been awesome and the new owners have been thrilled, but the price tag definitely warrants a second look at the CJ-35, which can be ordered with an Adirondack top (and sounds perfectly great in Sitka!)

[Mr. Jelly]

AMW - That's a good little review you put out. I have been eye balling the CJ45 T guitars and the reviews sometimes make the newest guitars sound great and all the old models are obsolete. Thanks

[brencat]

Originally Posted by AMW

I personally don't hear a big leap forward from the CJ-35, and I think that this neck is more specific (very large in the first position) and won't work for everyone.

The few CJ-45Ts that have come through have been awesome and the new owners have been thrilled, but the price tag definitely warrants a second look at the CJ-35, which can be ordered with an Adirondack top (and sounds perfectly great in Sitka!)

^^ A very fair critique. And I agree 100%.

[Zaam]

I had a chance to play two CJs and a CJ45 side by side not long ago, all mahogany. Each was pretty much as expected in terms of tone and feel, with slight differences. The surprising thing for me is that I actually preferred the voice of one of the Standard CJs over the 45T, and this was also the consensus at the shop. The other thing that was unexpected was that the neck felt beefier than I anticipated. I have an OM2H T and figured the neck would feel the same but it definitely felt larger than mine. Checking the Collings site I saw that the neck carve is actually a bit different from the OM, even though both are Traditional models. The CJ45T is a C shape for the entire length, chunkier at the first fret and the a hair more shallow than the OMT but the CJ45 feels more massive due to the OMT transitioning into a soft V up the neck. Anyway, just wanted to mention that all T necks are not the same (perhaps the Vintage Now design is a factor in this?)

Main takeaway other than the details above is that the CJ and CJ45 were impressive, clear and balanced, with ample bass. Just beautiful instruments overall.

[jrb715]

Originally Posted by AMW

They're very fine, with a lot of tonal nuance. I personally don't hear a big leap forward from the CJ-35, and I think that this neck is more specific (very large in the first position) and won't work for everyone.

The few CJ-45Ts that have come through have been awesome and the new owners have been thrilled, but the price tag definitely warrants a second look at the CJ-35, which can be ordered with an Adirondack top (and sounds perfectly great in Sitka!)

I can't compare the two, but can attest that the CJ35 is an extraordinary guitar that gets better and better with age. Not, I think, to everybody's taste, but, for me, a unique and exciting voice. Never parting with mine.

[Zaam]

Originally Posted by jrb715

I can't compare the two, but can attest that the CJ35 is an extraordinary guitar that gets better and better with age. Not, I think, to everybody's taste, but, for me, a unique and exciting voice. Never parting with mine.

That is on my short list. Between that and a short scale SJ...

[EverettWilliams]

I'm sitting here with a 2021 CJ-45AT and a 2013 CJ-35. I've had the 35 for many years and acquired the 45 back in December.

In talking with some trusted dealers and seeing/reading reviews online and the promotional materials from Collings, I was under the impression that this was a significant improvement over the 35.

I fell in love with this particular 35 at the dealer, and it took a few trips back before I bought it, but was very happy when I did. Over time, my enthusiasm for it has diminished, I like it, but I tend to reach for other guitars first. I'm more drawn to the more open Martin paradigm than the compressed and, in the very best way, kind of trashy sound of the Gibson paradigm. I think the Gibson sound is great for many things and I wouldn't be without it, but the way I play generally translates better on Martin styled instruments. This holds true within Collings' take on each.

When the 45 came out, I too I was itching to play one. But with Covid, I haven't been traveling to too many guitar stores. But when the opportunity to pick up a lightly used one with a beautiful Adirondack top, a stunning tighter burst, AND a Collings vintage case, I couldn't resist (I can never resist a Collings case...) and I bought it.

It arrived, I put new sets of my default strings on both the 35 and the 45 and began the comparison test. I'd been expecting a significant difference, but it was modest. The 35 is more compressed with really stacked lower midrange, the 45 has more of an open tone and clarity to it. The bass in the 35 is a little stronger, but I attribute that to it being eight years old with good playtime. The 45 is a new Adirondack top whose previous owner was a fingerpicker, it hasn't many miles on it. I'm not a one spruce kind of guy, but for my playing (combo of flat picking and flesh fingerstyle), Adirondack is usually the right answer. I've also had the "new Collings with Adirondack top" experience many times, so I get how it grows. I don't expect peak bass when the guitar shows up, that requires some work. While I don't buy guitars for their potential, I do look for that potential when looking at new instruments and, in this 45, I hear that depth of bass that will come in. The 45 also has a sparkle in the high end that I really like -- but this is similar to the sparkle I hear in Collings' Adirondack topped instruments versus the Sitka topped instruments. In sum, I expected a played in Sitka Collings to have a rounder and warmer bass and more attenuated high end than the new Adirondack topped Collings. But even accounting for these differences, I'd expected more of a fundamental difference. Had I brought my 35 to compare to the 45 to see if the 45 beats the pants off the 35 and needed to be mine, I would have need to make some justifications. Different, yes. Seismic shift, no.

I've been spending a lot of time going back and forth between the two and have sued the 45 as a string testing platform going through half a dozen different types of strings while keeping the control on the 35. This gave me a sense of what works on the guitar best (I came back to the control). I've held off on posting on this thread because I wanted to give this more time and reflection.

Ultimately, I think the 45 is marginally better suited to my playing. I favor articulate guitars and this is more articulate. With a pick, the difference is less pronounced, but for fingerstyle, the 45 is discernibly better. I also have what I think to be reasonable expectations with respect to the development of the Adirondack and I suspect that with good playing time, in a year that the 45 will be a demonstrably stronger instrument. This is not to rag on Sitka, I think Sitka is a great top wood and I love what Collings does with it. When I go back and forth between the two, more often than not, I favor how what I play translates on the 45, but that's not universal. I agree with AMW that this isn't a huge leap.

As to the neck, my 35 has a bulky neck, but the taper obscures that a bit as it feels pretty normal in the first position. The 45 has much less taper. I don't think of it as a huge neck, but I'm also not that sensitive, I seldom meet a well set up guitar that I can't learn to dance with. While I have no problem with the 45 neck and am totally comfortable with it, I could see how others may have an issue.

The plan was to get the 45 and sell the 35, but if the 35 was a better fit, I left open the possibility that I'd I'd keep the 35 and sell the 45. In either case, I'd keep the vintage case (only two models left to go until I have at least one of each model they made -- I'm a nut, I know). I may still sell the 35, but it's a great example among the 35s I have played and I'd be interested to be able to track my hypothesis on the development of the 45. But it's admiring these marginal differences in the process of trying to find the best example of a particular model that has left me with three D2Hs - I loved my D2HT with a Sitka top (which blew me out of the water when I first played it and couldn't leave without it) but was convinced that an Adirondack topped D2H, or Madagascar, or varnish would be better -- I've bought two, one a D2HA with varnish and the other a D2HAT with Madagascar -- and while there are differences between all, I can't pick the best, it changes by the day, and so I still have them all. The problem is that almost every Collings is very, very good and among the really good examples, the differences aren't such that one is unequivocally better, just different.

Do I have any regrets about the 45? Not at all. I got the case, I prefer the tighter sunburst on the 45 to the 35 (but the 35 is still a beautiful Collings sunburst), and I think it is (and will further become) a better instrument for me as a player. But had I played them against each other before buying, without the case and the more desirable (to me) sunburst, I don't know that I would have been compelled to make the leap. The pricing difference of the 35 versus the 45 is curious to me. If I played a new 35 and a new 45 in a shop and they performed comparably to my examples, I'd question the cost difference -- very similar specs and very similar performance for a significantly different price.

My take away (based on a very small sample size): owners of 35s should not look at the 45 and feel like their guitar is obsolete, they may like the way the 45 works better than there 35, but may not. The 45 is a little more hi-fi than the 35, the 35 is a little bit more in the compressed direction of Gibsons and Waterloos.

I'll most likely keep the 45 and move the 35 on (that's how I justified it to myself and what I told my wife I'd do), but it won't be casting off a lesser guitar, it will be me hitching my wagon to the potential of a new Adirondack top and the vanity of a sunburst that makes me swoon.

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by EverettWilliams

I'm sitting here with a 2021 CJ-45AT and a 2013 CJ-35. I've had the 35 for many years and acquired the 45 back in December.

In talking with some trusted dealers and seeing/reading reviews online and the promotional materials from Collings, I was under the impression that this was a significant improvement over the 35.

I fell in love with this particular 35 at the dealer, and it took a few trips back before I bought it, but was very happy when I did. Over time, my enthusiasm for it has diminished, I like it, but I tend to reach for other guitars first. I'm more drawn to the more open Martin paradigm than the compressed and, in the very best way, kind of trashy sound of the Gibson paradigm. I think the Gibson sound is great for many things and I wouldn't be without it, but the way I play generally translates better on Martin styled instruments. This holds true within Collings' take on each.

When the 45 came out, I too I was itching to play one. But with Covid, I haven't been traveling to too many guitar stores. But when the opportunity to pick up a lightly used one with a beautiful Adirondack top, a stunning tighter burst, AND a Collings vintage case, I couldn't resist (I can never resist a Collings case...) and I bought it.

It arrived, I put new sets of my default strings on both the 35 and the 45 and began the comparison test. I'd been expecting a significant difference, but it was modest. The 35 is more compressed with really stacked lower midrange, the 45 has more of an open tone and clarity to it. The bass in the 35 is a little stronger, but I attribute that to it being eight years old with good playtime. The 45 is a new Adirondack top whose previous owner was a fingerpicker, it hasn't many miles on it. I'm not a one spruce kind of guy, but for my playing (combo of flat picking and flesh fingerstyle), Adirondack is usually the right answer. I've also had the "new Collings with Adirondack top" experience many times, so I get how it grows. I don't expect peak bass when the guitar shows up, that requires some work. While I don't buy guitars for their potential, I do look for that potential when looking at new instruments and, in this 45, I hear that depth of bass that will come in. The 45 also has a sparkle in the high end that I really like -- but this is similar to the sparkle I hear in Collings' Adirondack topped instruments versus the Sitka topped instruments. In sum, I expected a played in Sitka Collings to have a rounder and warmer bass and more attenuated high end than the new Adirondack topped Collings. But even accounting for these differences, I'd expected more of a fundamental difference. Had I brought my 35 to compare to the 45 to see if the 45 beats the pants off the 35 and needed to be mine, I would have need to make some justifications. Different, yes. Seismic shift, no.

I've been spending a lot of time going back and forth between the two and have sued the 45 as a string testing platform going through half a dozen different types of strings while keeping the control on the 35. This gave me a sense of what works on the guitar best (I came back to the control). I've held off on posting on this thread because I wanted to give this more time and reflection.

Ultimately, I think the 45 is marginally better suited to my playing. I favor articulate guitars and this is more articulate. With a pick, the difference is less pronounced, but for fingerstyle, the 45 is discernibly better. I also have what I think to be reasonable expectations with respect to the development of the Adirondack and I suspect that with good playing time, in a year that the 45 will be a demonstrably stronger instrument. This is not to rag on Sitka, I think Sitka is a great top wood and I love what Collings does with it. When I go back and forth between the two, more often than not, I favor how what I play translates on the 45, but that's not universal. I agree with AMW that this isn't a huge leap.

As to the neck, my 35 has a bulky neck, but the taper obscures that a bit as it feels pretty normal in the first position. The 45 has much less taper. I don't think of it as a huge neck, but I'm also not that sensitive, I seldom meet a well set up guitar that I can't learn to dance with. While I have no problem with the 45 neck and am totally comfortable with it, I could see how others may have an issue.

The plan was to get the 45 and sell the 35, but if the 35 was a better fit, I left open the possibility that I'd I'd keep the 35 and sell the 45. In either case, I'd keep the vintage case (only two models left to go until I have at least one of each model they made -- I'm a nut, I know). I may still sell the 35, but it's a great example among the 35s I have played and I'd be interested to be able to track my hypothesis on the development of the 45. But it's admiring these marginal differences in the process of trying to find the best example of a particular model that has left me with three D2Hs - I loved my D2HT with a Sitka top (which blew me out of the water when I first played it and couldn't leave without it) but was convinced that an Adirondack topped D2H, or Madagascar, or varnish would be better -- I've bought two, one a D2HA with varnish and the other a D2HAT with Madagascar -- and while there are differences between all, I can't pick the best, it changes by the day, and so I still have them all. The problem is that almost every Collings is very, very good and among the really good examples, the differences aren't such that one is unequivocally better, just different.

Do I have any regrets about the 45? Not at all. I got the case, I prefer the tighter sunburst on the 45 to the 35 (but the 35 is still a beautiful Collings sunburst), and I think it is (and will further become) a better instrument for me as a player. But had I played them against each other before buying, without the case and the more desirable (to me) sunburst, I don't know that I would have been compelled to make the leap. The pricing difference of the 35 versus the 45 is curious to me. If I played a new 35 and a new 45 in a shop and they performed comparably to my examples, I'd question the cost difference -- very similar specs and very similar performance for a significantly different price.

My take away (based on a very small sample size): owners of 35s should not look at the 45 and feel like their guitar is obsolete, they may like the way the 45 works better than there 35, but may not. The 45 is a little more hi-fi than the 35, the 35 is a little bit more in the compressed direction of Gibsons and Waterloos.

I'll most likely keep the 45 and move the 35 on (that's how I justified it to myself and what I told my wife I'd do), but it won't be casting off a lesser guitar, it will be me hitching my wagon to the potential of a new Adirondack top and the vanity of a sunburst that makes me swoon.

Very helpful and thoughtful review. Thanks for posting.

[Mark L]

One of the best comparative reviews I’ve read of any 2 guitars. Thanks.

[hairpuller]

With prices as they are, I'd be looking at a used CJ35...maybe with 5+ years of play on 'em. There's a lovely one at Greg Boyd's in Missoula for under 4k.

[chopinhauer]

Originally Posted by EverettWilliams

I'm sitting here with a 2021 CJ-45AT and a 2013 CJ-35. I've had the 35 for many years and acquired the 45 back in December.....

I agree with the others. This was an excellent comparative review.

Sounds like you have many Collings guitars and like the 35/45 series. Tell me, do also have the little brother of the CJ-35/45, namely, the C10-35. I have one and love it; sort of of Gibson L-00 on steroids as its often called. Do you have a take on these?

[CopyCat]

Another thanks for the in-depth and thoughtful comparison of these cousin models.

I don’t own either but have looked at them longingly from afar and was quite taken with the looks, and promo copy, when the CJ45T came out. (And listened repeatedly to Bob Minner’s album recorded on one.)

The timing coincided with arm/shoulder issues that made it a non-option. I’ve since had the chance to play just one of the 45s, a Sitka version, that I found nice but wasn’t enamored with.

Anyway, thanks again for putting the time and effort into a very helpful post. Collings makes great instruments; plenty to dissect at the heart of it all!

[dave42]

Originally Posted by AMW

They're very fine, with a lot of tonal nuance. I personally don't hear a big leap forward from the CJ-35, and I think that this neck is more specific (very large in the first position) and won't work for everyone.

The few CJ-45Ts that have come through have been awesome and the new owners have been thrilled, but the price tag definitely warrants a second look at the CJ-35, which can be ordered with an Adirondack top (and sounds perfectly great in Sitka!)

Thanks for this interesting comment! Guess my 2014 CJ35GSB is safe with me .