Fingerstyle from Zero?

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by stanron

For me the fundamental skill is to be able to 'hear' internally a major scale. With that skill I don't have to remember any specific intervals. I just count up the scale notes until I reach the right number and remember the first and last notes and sing them.

Having said that, remembering intervals is not as daunting as it might at first seem. Seconds are easiest. They are just consecutive scale notes. Sevenths are octaves of descending Seconds. You could call them inverted Seconds.

In the same way Sixths are inverted Thirds and Fifths are inverted Fourths and vice versa. Apart from being able to change major intervals into minor, that's all you need to learn.

This probably seems complicated, especially if you are not used to the words, but actually it is the basis of simplicity.

You should already be able to hear octaves. You should already be able to hear Seconds. They are just the next scale note up.

On a guitar a Third interval is what you get when you play open G and then open B and a Fourth is what you get when you play any other adjacent pair of strings, low to high.

I taught myself to sight sing by counting up the notes of the scale. Its slow at first but gets quicker with practice, just like everything else.

Apart from Seconds and Octaves, the Fourth is the only interval I can instantly remember. Maybe it's from all those years tuning a guitar by ear. It's also the perfect musical full stop if the second note is the key note.

To recap, learn to 'hear' or 'sing' a major scale in your head and you can work it all out from there.

As far as instruments such as guitar are concerned I think a great exercise is to memorise the 'melody' of a major scale and recreate that 'scale tune' starting from any random fret.
You see so many posts from people asking how to find scales on the fretboard but nobody seems to think about just using their ears, it's all pictures and diagrams because that's what books and the internet is full of. I guess nobody yet worked out a way to monetise the sound of a scale or arrpegio so that aproach gets ignored.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Andyrondack

As far as instruments such as guitar are concerned I think a great exercise is to memorise the 'melody' of a major scale and recreate that 'scale tune' starting from any random fret.
You see so many posts from people asking how to find scales on the fretboard but nobody seems to think about just using their ears, it's all pictures and diagrams because that's what books and the internet is full of. I guess nobody yet worked out a way to monetise the sound of a scale or arrpegio so that aproach gets ignored.

There are a number of us older folks who started learning before the internet came into being and learned a lot from recordings using our ears. Since then, things have really changed.

I was severely taken to task some years ago in these forums for having the audacity to suggest that it would be good ear training to learn to tune one's guitar by ear. I was absolutely stunned by this. I couldn't believe that people had changed that much since when I was learning to play guitar. At that time, people still "piled on" in threads so that if somebody went after another, other people jumped in to get their punches in too. Several people went after me on this. There are many questions asked around here that we used to just figure out ourselves, so there really does seem to be a fundamental shift toward total complacent dependency on somebody having to show people how to do things with the guitar that if one were self-motivated enough, could figure out in the course of the learning process.

Back in the early 80s, I attended the first of John Stropes' Fingerstyle Festivals at UW campus in Milwaukee. Leo Kottke was one of the instructors. In his seminar, he talked about the value of tuning your guitar by ear, and how the ear "gets lazy" if you don't use it. He wasn't advocating that we should always tune by ear because obviously there are situations in which a tuner makes good practical sense, but there are also times when tuning by ear can be done and we should take advantage of those time. One example of such a time is when playing at home by myself.

I experienced the effectiveness of this first hand when I was playing in a church band in a church that had a piano that was usually out of tune because they didn't have the funds to get it tuned regularly. There was another guitar player in the band and he always used an electronic tuner with a big needle that told him when his guitar string matched the correct note.

I always tuned my guitar by ear to the piano so that it played in tune with the out of tune piano. This other player's guitar sounded awfully out of tune with the piano, so I started tuning his guitar for him too since he simply couldn't hear it.

Music is first and foremost a hearing art. Being able to pick out melodies, hear chords, and just figure stuff out is an important skill. Just like picking out melodies, being able to pick out a scale is really the same thing, since the scale is essentially just another melody (i.e. a series of notes).

Being able to read TAB and standard notation are good things to know, since there is little point in purposely limiting our ability to learn new music. But these are (in my opinion) secondary skills as compared to the skill of using one's ear.

Tony

[packlite]

Originally Posted by PeasantDaughter

Somewhere between these beginner courses that feel like a lobotomy and fans shredding covers of guitar legends and the church of caged is a path to skill and mastery and expression. I just like the zen of fingerstyle, and the direct transfer of energy, the little I have tried of it. Really not feeling the pick or strumming. I lost my voice and I'm not a performer and there's no campfires. Just want to feel beautiful sounds coming out of that wooden box with strings is all. Folk, blues, classical, latin - it doesn't matter.

Well said, me too.!!

[tbeltrans]

What I have done is to load up my tablet with the various classes and song collections that I want to learn about. I have the wifi shut off so that when I am using my tablet, all I have is the tablet and my guitar.

The purpose is to watch video lectures that were well thought out and complete, rather than searching through a bunch of youtube videos. The idea is to get ideas, inspiration, and learn some things.

My sources are more jazz oriented than is being discussed in this thread, but the idea still applies. My videos come largely from Mike's Master Classes and My Music Master Classes. These videos are typically an hour or so long. Some have PDFs, and many do not. Each focuses on some specific aspect of jazz guitar, so they are focused and in depth.

I have found over time that searching youtube and the like ends up wasting a whole lot of time and even those videos that initially seem worthwhile, fall far short of being truly worth my time and effort.

Getting off the internet and truly focusing when it is my guitar time is far more satisfying in the long run than surfing the net looking for some new thing to learn.

Tony

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

There is a LOT to be gleaned from a classical guitar method. And since you're just starting out, it will teach you in a structured style that will teach you to read music too-- a real gift. Pumping Nylon is outstanding--and it's not just for nylon strings...and Frederick Noad's method is outstanding...finding a teacher is important--there's many things in classical instruction that as a steel string player you don't need to adopt--but there's also a ton of really great technique builders.

You're actually in a great position as a raw beginner-- no preconcieved notions or bad habits!

Fred was a great guy and I enjoyed watching his TV program. He helped me out once with advcie when I was in the market for a classical guitar.

Yes, Frederick Noad books are quite good. Learn about some concept and be able to put it to use in some example right off (you should know a little about standard notation).

[Bluenose]

Now you know what it's like to drink from a firehose. Anyway good luck, it's a worthwhile pursuit IMO.

[MacDude62]

For me the best teacher was Adam Rafferty,you should try listen to him,maybe it would help

[TBman]

I'm curious as to how the OP fared in learning to play. I would love to hear some of her tunes.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by PeasantDaughter

Hi,

I've only been playing a few months now and poked my head into a half dozen beginner websites and working on chords.

But I'm a little frustrated because I'd really like to work on fingerstyle right away and most courses barely cover this and if they do it is late in the curriculum.

Does anybody know of any online lessons that introduce this right away while learning the chords?

Thanks in advance and much appreciated!

I don't. A high school friend showed me three simple fingerstyle songs: "Suzanne," "Alice's Restaurant," and "Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You."

After that, I'd sit in the back bathroom where my parents couldn't hear me and just noodle every night. It's easier than using a flatpick becsause you don't have to aim. Your fingers are already almost there. And you can't drop your fingers.

So instead of getting mired in a course, how about just getting someone online or in person to show you a few simple songs? The rest is just woodshed, woodshed, woodshed.

[AX17609]

Originally Posted by TBman

I'm curious as to how the OP fared in learning to play. I would love to hear some of her tunes.

The OP's flurry of messages occurred two years ago, and we haven't heard from her since. I think we can guess how this initiative turned out.