do overbuilt guitars sound better with a pickup?

jcpharm · #1 04-26-2022, 09:21 AM

so i recently tried out a nicely-built made-in-china guitar, OM-body cutaway with solid acacia (koa-like) top, laminate acacia back/sides, which has a nice focused mid-rangy tone (more mahogany-like than rosewood-like if that makes sense) and wonderful sustain, but it does not have that much headroom when pushed with heavy strumming. so as an acoustic guitar, especially when compared to my all-solid wood guitars, it is not as dynamic and can't compete in volume.

But it has a no-name brand dual source pickup (mic and UST system with blend akin to an Anthem setup) that sounds really good. Personally, I think the guitar is probably overbuilt which keeps it from resonating more, but the pickup sound is so good, and i'm wondering if it's because the "overbuilt-ness" keeps it from resonating to the point of uncontrollable feedback and keeps the amplified sound clear and articulate - so acoustically it's kind of so-so, but the plugged in, its sound is quite good.

then again, i've never plugged in an all koa/acacia guitar so maybe this phenomenon is a function of the tonewoods and not being overbuilt. but i guess my question is do you have any guitars that aren't the most acoustically dynamic and rich, but sound really good plugged in?

rstaight · #2 04-26-2022, 10:18 AM

Do they sound better? That's up to the person playing. Will it sound different? Sure will.

Chriscom · #3 04-26-2022, 10:26 AM

I'm not an expert in this area but I've seen similar comments related to resonance.

I've been looking online at the Cole Clark guitars, which are said to have amazing pickup systems. Their unplugged acoustic sound is generally not so highly praised--not awful, but not superb by many accounts. YouTube vids can go only so far, but I've yet to hear a typical Cole Clark online whose acoustic tone appeals to me.

A couple threads I was reading elsewhere compared an Australian Blackwood Cole Clark to another made of more conventional tonewoods (they do that). Long story short he attributed the superior amplified and inferior pure acoustic sound to Blackwood's lower resonance.

The following is from Cole Clark's description of Blackwood:

This is the stiffest timber we make tops out of. It has a character all of its own, quite like Koa as it is a very close cousin.

Petty1818 · #4 04-26-2022, 11:26 AM

I wouldn't say they sound better, but they tend to have less issues when amplified, especially if the guitar has a SBT or internal mic system. Less resonance/low end is always a good thing. It's why Takamine, Maton, Cole Clark etc. often sound great plugged in but not that great unplugged.

One brand that amplifies well is Larrivee because of the balanced tone and the fairly stiff top.

rockabilly69 · #5 04-26-2022, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chriscom

I'm not an expert in this area but I've seen similar comments related to resonance.

I've been looking online at the Cole Clark guitars, which are said to have amazing pickup systems. Their unplugged acoustic sound is generally not so highly praised--not awful, but not superb by many accounts. YouTube vids can go only so far, but I've yet to hear a typical Cole Clark online whose acoustic tone appeals to me.

A couple threads I was reading elsewhere compared an Australian Blackwood Cole Clark to another made of more conventional tonewoods (they do that). Long story short he attributed the superior amplified and inferior pure acoustic sound to Blackwood's lower resonance.

The following is from Cole Clark's description of Blackwood:

This is the stiffest timber we make tops out of. It has a character all of its own, quite like Koa as it is a very close cousin.

I've had three Parkwood LE061 Australian Blackwood (top, back, and sides) guitars, and they all have consistently sounded great with most pickups that I put in them. Stiff top has usually meant less runaway low end in my experience.

shufflebeat · #6 04-26-2022, 01:51 PM

This topic often comes up with Takamines and it seem they deliberately make some of theirs with pretty stiff tops to make them bomb-proof onstage.

My ef341sc is lovely sounding but not boomy at all for a dread, ditto the ef360s but I have found some to be quite lively.

jcpharm · #7 04-26-2022, 03:21 PM

Thanks for the replies - yes, it could be a stiff top. guitar feels heavier than i would expect for an OM but could be the pickup installed rather than thicker and stiff woods.

Wade Hampton · #8 04-26-2022, 09:16 PM

The Beatles used plywood-topped Gibson 160E guitars which were deliberately overbuilt to stifle feedback. If you’ve ever played one of those you know what I mean. They worked well for the intended purpose, but acoustically they sounded pretty stunted.

whm

Chriscom · #9 04-26-2022, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

The Beatles used plywood-topped Gibson 160E guitars which were deliberately overbuilt to stifle feedback. If you’ve ever played one of those you know what I mean. They worked well for the intended purpose, but acoustically they sounded pretty stunted.

whm

I played a 160E in a Guitar Center around five years ago. I was astonished to learn back then it included plywood. It sounded pretty dull, but that may have been exaggerated by old strings too.

MrErikJ · #10 04-27-2022, 08:15 AM

The sound is subjective but they will be less feedback prone.

rokdog49 · #11 04-28-2022, 04:06 PM

Played a new Takamine Dred at Lays Guitar today that weighed in at 7lbs. plus.
I would consider it “overbuilt.” That’s as heavy as my Tele.
Didn’t get to play it plugged in but surprisingly it sounded decent acoustically.

Also played a Lowden that weighed slightly over half as much…that was my first time with one. It was very bright, definitely not my thing.

leew3 · #12 04-29-2022, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Played a new Takamine Dred at Lays Guitar today that weighed in at 7lbs. plus.
I would consider it “overbuilt.” That’s as heavy as my Tele.
Didn’t get to play it plugged in but surprisingly it sounded decent acoustically.

I was there and was amazed to learn that this Takamine had a tube in the preamp! It was weird to see a vacuum tube inside an acoustic guitar.

Methos1979 · #13 04-29-2022, 06:13 AM

I would agree with the OP's thoughts as well as those about the Cole Clarks as an corollary example. I owned three Cole Clark guitars, all level 2, all made of all blackwood. All of them sounded fantastic plugged in. But the heaviest built and least resonant - the Fat Lady - sound slightly better.

Acoustically, the Angel sounded the best of the bunch, largely I think due to the slightly light build than the Fat Lady and the larger sound hole compared to the other two. The Little Lady sounded second best acoustically likely because it also had a lighter build and smaller body, so more resonant.

The Fat Lady was the biggest (dread body) and it was also a fairly heavy, over-built guitar. As such it seemed to be the least resonant of the trio acoustically. That said, while all three sounded great and nearly identical to each other amplified, the Fat Lady sounded just a bit better than the other two.

When I was gigging both the Fat Lady and Angel, the Fat Lady was the preferred model as it sounded a little better, a little more even across the tonal spectrum and it was also rock solid from a feedback standpoint. Never an issue whereas the Angel could be a little hot if the volume was loud.