Pickup(s) for New Dyer HG

Jason Cornwell · #1 01-19-2022, 07:15 AM

Hi all,

I’m looking to add electronics to my New Dyer harp guitar. Is it as “simple” as asking my luthier to install two kk pure minis, one for bass and the other for the fretted neck? That seems to be what was done on my Timberline T20.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

tbirdman · #2 01-19-2022, 10:27 AM

I'm doing something similar to my new Timberline TH60PC. I'm will be installing Dazzos a set for each set of strings. I will be coming out with a stereo end jack and feeding that into a dual preamp Sunnaudio MS-2 so I can equalize both channels separately. My end goal after research was to have minimal stuff inside the guitar, the ability to have separate EQ, single end jack and wireless. I'm giving up wireless with this solution.

Talking with Teddy from Dazzos, he said Harp Guitars are different because the strings to the outer edge of the top will have less vibration than the strings closer to the middle. because of this and he being a perfectionist, he will manually position the pickups before permanently installing them to get the best sound. I will be having him installing the Dazzos pickups.

I know some have just wired KKs together to create a mono output, but that changes the output impedance. Sunnaudio has a internally blending preamp that you could use to keep the impedance the same, but you lose the ability to EQ the two sets of strings separately and you have a battery and other stuff inside the guitar.

If you search on the web there are many ways people are using pickups, and you can have paralysis by analysis.

Good luck with your research and final decision. Congrats on your new HG!

Teleplucker · #3 01-21-2022, 03:41 PM

If you contact K&K they will make you a pickup with PWM for the neck and an undersaddle transducer for bass strings. You will need to provide them with the spacing on your bass strings.
It has a stereo output so you can use two preamps or if you use a regular mono cable you will get the guitar neck and "a lot" of bleed over from the subs. I believe the fellow at K&K is named Deter, but I might be mistaken.

Jason Cornwell · #4 01-22-2022, 11:03 AM

Thanks for the responses! I’ve never heard of Dazzos pickups before, but they look like the same idea behind the K&Ks.

Regarding the K&Ks mini + transducer - is there an advantage to this configuration over just using 2 pure minis?

I like the idea of one stereo output. I could run them into two separate channels on my powered mixer, correct? Would I be able to connect two K&K pure minis to a stereo output?

My Timberline has two separate outputs, which means two 1/4” cables to deal with. If I could avoid that with a stereo output that would be ideal.

tbirdman · #5 01-22-2022, 12:20 PM

For more info on Dazzos you can do a search in the amplification section of AGF. I think there are as many pickups brands/types out there as there are strings including fans of each.

You do see a lot of K&Ks. I'm going with Dazzos as they have worked well with my other guitars, but plenty of other solutions out there. I exchanged emails with one HG owner who had a K&K UST for each bridge and a K&K SBT spread across the two bridge. He ran each into a volume control in the guitar and then wired them all together inside the guitar.

You can wire each K&K mini to a stereo end jack. The disadvantage would be finding a TRS replacement cable when you are out playing would be difficult from a fellow musician so you need to carry a spare TRS cable with you. You could run the TRS cable into the power mixer, using a stereo to mono cable breakout unless the mixer could handle a stereo signal. In fact I was considering buying a powered mixer as I only had a single channel preamp, but was able to trade in my single channel preamp for a dual channel preamp from Sunnaudio for a little more $. This simplified my setup as the preamp as EQ on both channels, can accept a stereo signal from a TRS cable and can mix the signals. The one thing you need to be aware of is if the mixer had the correct input impedance.

With your Timberline you could always use a stereo to mono adapter to a single TRS cable. I don't like two end jacks.

philjs · #6 01-23-2022, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teleplucker

...or if you use a regular mono cable you will get the guitar neck and "a lot" of bleed over from the subs.

This is exactly what I found when I installed pickups in my Timberline T30HGc. I bought two Schatten HFN passive soundboard transducers intending to put one on the guitar strings bridge plate and the other under the subs plate. But I found that I didn't need to install the one for the subs because there was more than enough signal from the subs with the single pickup on the bridge plate under the guitar saddle. I also found that running the signal into both my Bose L1c and a Behringer B1200D-PRO subwoofer (has adjustable frequency bandpass) gave me more than enough control over just the subs. YMMV.

Phil

Oracle · #7 01-26-2022, 01:35 PM

Teleplucker has the right idea in my opinion.
I did just this on my HG, and had Dieter at K&K wire up the
output jack in stereo. I run that through a DTAR Solstice.
I have EQ and volume options for each channel. Output can
be either mono, or stereo.
I haven't had any crosstalk or bleed issues. I would recommend
using a high quality TRS cable.

Mike

Teleplucker · #8 02-02-2022, 06:24 PM

I have run sound for Stephen Bennett and Andy Walburg many times at The Harp Guitar Gathering. Neither of those guys uses a dual pickup system. Muriel Anderson has a dual source system and requests a mic for her super treble strings. Those are the premier players in the harp guitar world and that's what they use for live sound.
For recording I know Stephen Bennett does not use internal pickups, only a mic. Take all that FWIW.

tbirdman · #9 02-03-2022, 02:23 PM

Good info , and we can see the solutions run from zero, one, two or three pickups. Don't think anyone uses four.

I'm taking lessons from Muriel Anderson so I may ask her what her opinion is of pickups are for harp guitars.

Crosswind · #10 03-06-2022, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbirdman

I'm taking lessons from Muriel Anderson so I may ask her what her opinion is of pickups are for harp guitars.

Wow, that is awesome. I'm such a big fan of her playing. She is a very talented guitarist!

tbirdman · #11 03-07-2022, 11:44 AM

Yes, I feel that I'm am blessed to be able to take lessons from her. She's a nice of a person as a great guitar instructor.

She did respond to one of my videos I sent to her, and she said it took a minute to figure out what I was playing.

But then she gave me some good advice on how to improve.

1after909 · #12 03-13-2022, 01:41 PM

Are you taking lessons with her via the internet? I usually check in with her on her Monday live feed via YouTube..

tbirdman · #13 03-14-2022, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1after909

Are you taking lessons with her via the internet? I usually check in with her on her Monday live feed via YouTube..

I had one live one on one lesson via internet for $100. To save costs, I signed up for the Truefire private lessons where it's $99 a month where you exchange unlimited videos and text messages. It's still private, but not as convenient. I spent about an hour yesterday trying to get a decent recording of the first song she taught me. I get nervous trying to record a video.

She said the problem with this method she has found, is most people won't dedicate practice time unless they have a schedule lesson coming up. You need to be dedicated and practice on a regular basis which I do.

That said, I really like the one month I have spent doing this with her.