Value for money

[David Eastwood]

I went to a local guitar show this weekend, which showcased guitar makers from Minnesota, and surrounding states.

One in particular, stole my heart.

Here it is: https://seatonguitars.com/instrument/maple-sugar/

Just a spectacular guitar, in every conceivable way. I'd love to own one.

Except - it would cost more than my existing Emerald X20, the X20-7 I have on order, and the Amicus I'd like to add to the collection before I'm done, combined.

I'm thinking that on a price-performance scale, CF might actually have an advantage going forward.

[RP]

I suppose it all depends on what your sweet $$ spot is for guitars...

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by RP

I suppose it all depends on what your sweet $$ spot is for guitars...

True. My 'sweet spot' has always been around the $2k mark, and my first Emerald is the first guitar I've purchased that approached that line.

After owning it for nearly a year, I was convinced enough to order another one. Nothing else I've played in the same price range (regardless of material) has ever inspired me as much.

Yesterday, I played a wood guitar - the Seaton - which was the first one I've played in a long, long time, which made me realize that a guitar might actually be worth $6k.

Hence my train of thought, which, to summarize, really is - $2k for an Emerald, or equivalent Rainsong (such as the delectable APSE) is an absolute bargain.

Nice guitar, Eatswodo. Also nice judgment. I've often found myself surprised at how a less expensive item can be better than one that is more expensive. I continue to believe that Emerald is the best buy of a custom instrument.

[Earl49]

A guitar show can be a VERY dangerous place for your wallet. I went to the Healdsburg show in 2011 and nearly bought an $8K custom baritone guitar from a builder in Australia made from rare Tiger Myrtle and with many custom features. It was a beauty!! Runner up was a $6K Goodall koa baritone. My wallet eventually escaped unscathed but was terribly frightened for weeks. For the record, the most expensive guitar that I've ever bought was a $2800 Taylor 615ce. My personal sweet spot is in the $1800-2300 range, right where most composite guitars sit price-wise.

Only you can determine something as subjective as "value". When I was a starving college student, a $238 used Ovation was a nearly impossible purchase and a highly prized possession. IMHO the current crop of composite guitars give a lot of tonal performance and playability in addition to their ruggedness. As Captain Jim often says, "Come for the durability, stay for the tone".

[Captain Jim]

I don't know why the title to this thread reminds me of the Dire Straits song... "Money for nothing and your chicks for free..." For the record, only one time do I remember money for nothing, and Joan still doesn't let me date.

I am happy with the guitars I own... I guess that's "value" for me.

At what point would the price of a guitar make you have second thoughts about taking it out of the house?

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

At what point would the price of a guitar make you have second thoughts about taking it out of the house?

Funny how precious we get about stuff, isn’t it? I regularly grab a camera and lens combination which cost more than any single guitar I’ve ever purchased, and carry it around without a thought (beyond being naturally protective of it).

Every day I get in my car, which cost more than all the guitars and photo gear I own together, without a thought (again, beyond being naturally protective of something I’ve paid for with my hard-earned money).

If I owned that $6200 Seaton (that, two days later, I’m still having covetous thoughts about), it would leave the house. Why wouldn’t I share it? I’d want to show it off - not because of what it cost, but because it’s a fabulous guitar, and deserves to be seen and heard.

[GuitarLuva]

I certainly agree with the logic here. Carbon fiber guitars from the known makers are certainly not what I would label as cheap but it is relative. A Taylor 814ce here in Canada would cost me roughly $1500 more than an Emerald X20. I can get a brand new Martin D18 for around the same price as the X20. My Gibson Songwriter was close enough to the same price. Point being, none of those are cheap guitars but look at what you get from the all carbon guitar. It's virtually maintenance free and will last forever as long as you don't run it over with your car, have it stolen or expose it to extreme heat.

I think we all enjoy the headache free aspect of owning a carbon fiber guitar. I also think they came a long way since the first one I played to what's available now and they're constantly improving. While I believe wood guitars will always exist I think as years go by more people will slowly venture into the carbon fiber world cause they are that good and well worth the asking price IMO.

[PTL]

Eatswodo,

Wow, that is a beautiful and unique guitar! Thanks for posting the ink. Never saw a guitar with that design.

Can you describe the tone? Is it more on the chimey side of tonality? And I wonder how projective it is in a room with other musicians or if the sound primarily projects to the player (not a bad thing at all)? I'm looking to purchase it by any stretch given the cost but am quite curious. BEAUTIFUL aesthetics!

Thanks again for posting. Beautiful instrument!!

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by PTL

Eatswodo,

Wow, that is a beautiful and unique guitar! Thanks for posting the ink. Never saw a guitar with that design.

Can you describe the tone? Is it more on the chimey side of tonality? And I wonder how projective it is in a room with other musicians or if the sound primarily projects to the player (not a bad thing at all)? I'm looking to purchase it by any stretch given the cost but am quite curious. BEAUTIFUL aesthetics!

Thanks again for posting. Beautiful instrument!!

Tone is such a difficult thing to describe, particularly a week after the fact

I'd say his guitars tend toward a drier, more immediate tone - almost an archtop-like attack, but with all the overtone you'd expect from a fine flattop. I only fingerpicked it - I hardly ever play with a pick - so can't comment on how it sounds strummed. Very responsive, and beautifully set up.

I can't really comment about its forward projection, but, to the player, it's just gorgeous and enveloping. Here's a link to some recordings of a couple of his other instruments - #3, in particular, from memory, is probably pretty representative of my recollection of the Maple Sugar.

https://seatonguitars.com/sound/

[M19]

So, I didn't convince Vickie to let you open the $pigot, eh?

I actually liked the odd-shaped sound hole models a little better. Perhaps because I am odd-shaped too...

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by M19

So, I didn't convince Vickie to let you open the $pigot, eh?

No, Martin - that's why she came with me. Seriously, though, she's glad she did. She has an eye for a nice guitar, and actually pointed out the Maple Sugar Seaton to me while I was playing another.

We both commented after the show about how few women there were there, other than those supporting the stands.

I actually liked the odd-shaped sound hole models a little better. Perhaps because I am odd-shaped too...

Oh, I wouldn't say that

[northtrader]

Originally Posted by eatswodo

One in particular, stole my heart.

Here it is: https://seatonguitars.com/instrument/maple-sugar/

Thanks for the post and exposure to this builder. Pretty much right in my backyard.

It was a pleasant rabbit trail your post sent me on. Discovered a few things I would not otherwise have. Just wanted to say thanks.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by northtrader

Thanks for the post and exposure to this builder. Pretty much right in my backyard.

It was a pleasant rabbit trail your post sent me on. Discovered a few things I would not otherwise have. Just wanted to say thanks.

You're welcome - happy to share the work of an exceptional maker.

I'd driven past his driveway a couple of weeks before this event without even knowing he existed

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by eatswodo

Funny how precious we get about stuff, isn’t it? I regularly grab a camera and lens combination which cost more than any single guitar I’ve ever purchased, and carry it around without a thought (beyond being naturally protective of it).

Every day I get in my car, which cost more than all the guitars and photo gear I own together, without a thought (again, beyond being naturally protective of something I’ve paid for with my hard-earned money).

If I owned that $6200 Seaton (that, two days later, I’m still having covetous thoughts about), it would leave the house. Why wouldn’t I share it? I’d want to show it off - not because of what it cost, but because it’s a fabulous guitar, and deserves to be seen and heard.

From my personal perspective, my car is simply a tool that gets me from point A to point B and back as cheaply and trouble free as possible. My car is 19 years old, cost me $5k when I bought it used 15 years ago, and the only expensive repair it has needed has been a brake job at 160k miles. It is a tool to me, nothing more and it has done that very well.

My guitars are much more personal than that. I see my carbon fiber guitars as being essentially indestructible, so I can be care free about taking them out and about, but the wood guitars I am very careful with and would be hesitant to take them out and risking damage. To me, these boutique instruments are works of art as well as being fine instruments.

Again, for me, a camera is a tool and not something that I have the connection I have with my guitars. We do have a reasonably good one, a Fujifilm X100F.

Now, that may be different for other folks, which is why I kept saying "for me". However, it is one possible explanation why, at least for some folks, the car is not thought of in the same way as their guitars. For those folks, getting a carbon fiber guitar could be just the ticket. They can be expensive, in the range of a decent Taylor or Martin, but they will outlast all of us without having to be cared for the way a wood guitar can require in overly dry or wet conditions. I have a couple of decent wood guitars that could be considered "boutique" since they are expensive and either hand made by one person or made in a small shop (Huss & Dalton). I also have a couple of decent carbon fiber guitars.

Tony