Nut width comparison

Good morning on NGD -3 (and change),

I'm thinking about nut width on some of the guitars I've been playing and trying out.

One of my "issues" (kind of a strong word for just a minor annoyance, really) with the PRS Tonare Parlor Guitar I've been renting is the neck feels very narrow.

I didn't notice the neck on the Martin 000-18 feeling narrow or wide. It did not feel problematic in any way.

I definitely felt like my fingers had more room on the neck of the Norman.

I did a little research on the specs and found the following nut widths published:

Norman 1.72" or 43.688 mm
Martin 000-18 1 3/4" which I converted to 1.75" and then 44.45 mm
PRS 1.6875" which I converted to 42.672 mm

Generally speaking they are all "around" 1 3/4" but the mm conversion shows a bit of a difference. Is this something that I'm going to really notice when I am playing? The PRS neck definitely feels a bit cramped, but it's only 1 mm (possibly) smaller than the Norman and less than two smaller than the Martin.

I guess my real question is can a millimeter or two actually feel that different when you play? Or is this something the mind is perceiving but not a material difference for the left hand?

Please opine!

[rollypolly]

I think yes a couple millimeters can make a big difference in nut width and string spacing. But the difference is usually most noticeable when switching between guitars. I can adapt and play a 1 11/16" but just fine but at first it feels narrow. Neck thickness and profile makes a difference too.

[jaymarsch]

I have much to say on this subject since an old injury flared up on my fretting hand about 10 years back, forcing me to take a deeper dive into all things that impact my fretting hand. For some folks, nut width is completely transparent, they can go from 1 and 7/8ths to 1 and 11/16ths and barely notice. Others are more sensitive to these small differences.
One thing to note is that the feel of the nut width can be affected by other specs such as neck shape, neck taper, scale length, string spacing, as well as posture and ergonomics. Even whether it is a 12 fret or a 14 fret can feel different due to geometry and the change in angle for your shoulder, arm, wrist and fingers.
Over the past 18 years of owning and playing multiple guitars, I have learned the following on this topic
- My ideal specs are a nut width of 1 and 23/32nds, 25” scale length, and a modified/asymmetrical low oval neck shape.
- Having said that, I have also noticed that I cycle through playing my 3 main guitars that span from 1 and 11/16ths to 1 and 3/4ths one after another in one session that I can adjust over time to going from one to another pretty seamlessly. If I play a guitar that has the 1 and 11/16ths too long or too often, my old injury will flare. Same if I play a nut width of 1 and 13/16ths, especially if it is a longer scale length.
- It is easier for me to play cleanly when the nut width and neck specs are in my ideal range.
- I have been fortunate to have been able to sock away some money over time to have 2 different custom guitars made for me that have accommodated my personal neck spec preferences. Before that I depended upon dialing in my posture and the angle in which I held the guitar and where I could relieve any undue tension while playing.
It’s a journey that can vary from person to person and guitar to guitar. I think that you will find the range of specs that will give your hands, arms and shoulders the best opportunity to relax and play. As you are discovering, it just takes some awareness and experimentation.
I hope that this isn’t TMI and please ignore anything that doesn’t speak to you or is irrelevant to your situation.
Best,
Jayne

Originally Posted by jaymarsch

I have much to say on this subject since an old injury flared up on my fretting hand about 10 years back, forcing me to take a deeper dive into all things that impact my fretting hand. For some folks, nut width is completely transparent, they can go from 1 and 7/8ths to 1 and 11/16ths and barely notice. Others are more sensitive to these small differences.
One thing to note is that the feel of the nut width can be affected by other specs such as neck shape, neck taper, scale length, string spacing, as well as posture and ergonomics. Even whether it is a 12 fret or a 14 fret can feel different due to geometry and the change in angle for your shoulder, arm, wrist and fingers.
Over the past 18 years of owning and playing multiple guitars, I have learned the following on this topic
- My ideal specs are a nut width of 1 and 23/32nds, 25” scale length, and a modified/asymmetrical low oval neck shape.
- Having said that, I have also noticed that I cycle through playing my 3 main guitars that span from 1 and 11/16ths to 1 and 3/4ths one after another in one session that I can adjust over time to going from one to another pretty seamlessly. If I play a guitar that has the 1 and 11/16ths too long or too often, my old injury will flare. Same if I play a nut width of 1 and 13/16ths, especially if it is a longer scale length.
- It is easier for me to play cleanly when the nut width and neck specs are in my ideal range.
- I have been fortunate to have been able to sock away some money over time to have 2 different custom guitars made for me that have accommodated my personal neck spec preferences. Before that I depended upon dialing in my posture and the angle in which I held the guitar and where I could relieve any undue tension while playing.
It’s a journey that can vary from person to person and guitar to guitar. I think that you will find the range of specs that will give your hands, arms and shoulders the best opportunity to relax and play. As you are discovering, it just takes some awareness and experimentation.
I hope that this isn’t TMI and please ignore anything that doesn’t speak to you or is irrelevant to your situation.
Best,
Jayne

Not TMI at all! That is exactly the kind of detail I was hoping for to confirm what I only thought was a hunch. Maybe the PRS is feeling extra cramped b/c I'm switching between it and a Spanish style guitar that has a ton of space between the strings, which I really like. As it turns out. The problem with that guitar is that the frets are so wide, and my hands are on the small side, I can't really do a chord where you have to stretch it over four frets. That's even tough on the PRS. In a few more days I'll have Norman to compare to as well, and I'm sure I will be adding even more detail to your details. Thank you so much for your thoughtful response.

Originally Posted by rollypolly

I think yes a couple millimeters can make a big difference in nut width and string spacing. But the difference is usually most noticeable when switching between guitars. I can adapt and play a 1 11/16" but just fine but at first it feels narrow. Neck thickness and profile makes a difference too.

Interesting. The PRS neck shape is described as "Wide Fat" so maybe that width or girth is taking up valuable "hand space/finger space" that I would have for fretting if the neck were a different or slimmer profile. If that makes sense.

I can't find a description of the Norman neck shape, but looking at the photos online, you can see there's more space between the strings than the PRS.

I just measured the distance between the E & A strings on the PRS. It's between 6 and 7mm. On the Spanish guitar it's almost 9mm! Wow, no wonder that feels different.

Can't wait to compare the Norman when I bring it home on Sunday.

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by janinep7

I guess my real question is can a millimeter or two actually feel that different when you play? Or is this something the mind is perceiving but not a material difference for the left hand?

Please opine!

Yes, for many people that difference can be fairly significant in terms of comfort, although some players switch back and forth with no irritation.

I often suspect that string width at the bridge can be equally as important as nut width.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by janinep7

I guess my real question is can a millimeter or two actually feel that different when you play? Or is this something the mind is perceiving but not a material difference for the left hand?

Please opine!

Yes and yes. In addition to nut width, neck shape and bridge spacing can also affect your hand and your mind's perception. As above, some folks have no problem going between different nut widths, neck shapes, and string spacing. Others are more sensitive to small difference.

Since I switch between acoustic, electric, and bass guitar, I've had to deal with drastic changes in string spacing and scale lengths. That said, I like my acoustic guitars to have similar specs and may thin the heard to limit my variables.

At the end of the day, if you practice enough with different specs you likely can get comfortable on them, but that may not be the best use of one's time. Really is an individual thing.

[zombywoof]

As arthritis continues to take its toll on my hands, I find myself less forgiving and as such less flexible than I once was when it comes to nut width, neck carve and string spacing at the bridge. At one point I could keep up with it by changing the way I approached a guitar. So, if one finger on my right hand did not work as well as another, I went with that one. Kind of like when you tell a doctor it hurts when I do this and he responds with just don't do that. But lately I find more room seems to be better all around. So yeah, I can feel it when moving between 1 3/4" and 1 13/16" nuts and maybe because I am a fingerpicker I can sure as heck feel a difference when going from a string spacing at the bridge of 2 5/16" or 2 3/8" to 2 1/3".

Your signature line is hilarious, Zombiewolf.

[b1j]

Janine, we are all waiting eagerly for Norman to enter your life for real.

With regard to your nut-width question, I'd say the thing that matters most is that you played and played and played many guitars before Norman spoke to you. That papers over any spec nuance.

I also agree that 1/16" (or even 1/32") makes for a discernible difference in the playing experience. Your Norman has the nut width of a J-45 (1.72" or 1-23/32"). The PRS, on the small side of your three examples, is 1-11/16", while the Martin is the Big Girl at 1-3/4". It's important to also take in neck profile and even scale length as well. But nothing beats the honest feel test you put your candidates through.

So enjoy the Norman, whatever the nut width is, because it spoke to you.

My three have these nut widths and scale lengths:
0-18: 1-22/32", 24.9" [note my 1952 has a narrower nut than the one in current production]
J-45: 1-23/32", 24.75"
Gurian: 1-19/32" (yes, that's right), 25.7" [kind of its own unique shape!]

They provide three distinct playing experiences. Plus, starkly different tones, but don't get me started on that.

[mawmow]

The nut width is a rough indicator of string spacing at nut.

For example, I am at ease with 1,75 in. for fingerstyle,
but 1,725 in. (many Gibsons) need caution with my fretting hand.

My Godin 5th Avenue nut was also at the lower limit for me,
but I saw the neck could take a 1,75 in. nut strings spacing,
so I carved one and it does the job.

Now, be aware that nut width could change on a guitar model
from years to years : It took me years to see a Guild F30 with
1,75 in. nut width. Today specs on the website may not match
the specs of last year model you are looking at !

Some sellers translation from in. to mm may also be clearly false.

When I look at guitar, I get my ruler out of my pocket whatever
says a seller or website of any builder.