TA Amulet lens experiment

[aaronmarkson]

I have quite a bit more room between my Trance Amulet Lenses and the x braces. Must just be a difference in bracing pattern. What guitar did you install this in?

IMG_6683.jpg

[Cuki79]

It is a Martin HD-28 from 2014 (pre reimagined series) with the standard scalloped bracing.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I understood the role of placement as far as spatial filtering is involved (the so called wah-wah effect) which is pretty "similar" as pickup placement for an electric guitar.

What I did not understand was the role of flexibility/rigidity and the impact of the X-brace proximity. Now it makes total sens for me.

So, I've read this whole thread and just want to make sure I'm capturing the bottom line:

is the idea here that an SBT needs some breathing room from a local brace so it captures more of the top resonance? And in this specific case, your treble lens had some room, but your bass lens was too close to a brace?

Are you sticking direct to the top now days and not to the bridge plate or are you on the bridge plate further away from a brace as you can comfortably get?

if so, this is very helpful.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by stevecuss

So, I've read this whole thread and just want to make sure I'm capturing the bottom line:

is the idea here that an SBT needs some breathing room from a local brace so it captures more of the top resonance? And in this specific case, your treble lens had some room, but your bass lens was too close to a brace?

.

Yes it is the idea. And it worked: this time. So this single experiment goes with what James May told us.

Originally Posted by stevecuss

Are you sticking direct to the top now days and not to the bridge plate or are you on the bridge plate further away from a brace as you can comfortably get?
.

I am sticking ON the bridge plate. I would probably not dare sticking straight on the top… I would be afraid of damaging the top in case of relocation.

I moved the sensor along the saddle line towards the treble sensor and further away from the X brace.

I am not saying it will work 100% of the time. If you have the Amulet and try to install the best thing to do is CALL Gary Hull… I have to admit that when I called him years ago I did not understand all of what he was saying… I am french and I struggle understanding English on the phone because it goes very fast and I can not see people’s face.

He might have given me that advice and I totally missed it.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by aaronmarkson

I have quite a bit more room between my Trance Amulet Lenses and the x braces. Must just be a difference in bracing pattern. What guitar did you install this in?

Attachment 69596

Aaron, That's a good bass Amulet positioning and it's where Trance recommends locating, per their diagram, the bass Amulet, which is slightly outward with the inner-end of the bass Amulet about 1/3 to 1/2 the distance from the 4th to 5th bridgepin pinholes. You also have plenty of room between the Amulet and the brace. In what guitar is this installation?

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I'm now leaning toward the Ultra Tonic 3.2 system as being the best pickup system I've personally installed and heard to date, When properly adjusted it can sound the most natural to me, which I finally achieved but have yet to post any demos of my final setting for the pickup.

I am considering giving this pickup a try. I just played guitar for about an hour for the first time in about three months. I first plugged in my K&K equipped Larrivee and then switched to my Wavelength equipped Taylor. It was night and day. The Larrivee sounded natural & warm and the strings had a nice beefiness to them. The Taylor sounded good for a UST, but there's still that harsh top end. I wasn't expecting the Taylor to sound natural, but I am always surprised by how thin/bright USTs can sound.

There's still this midrange tone that's noticeable with the Ultratonic/K&K that I find a bit annoying, but I feel as though every pickup has a tradeoff.

[aaronmarkson]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Aaron, That's a good bass Amulet positioning and it's where Trance recommends locating, per their diagram, the bass Amulet, which is slightly outward with the inner-end of the bass Amulet about 1/3 to 1/2 the distance from the 4th to 5th bridgepin pinholes. You also have plenty of room between the Amulet and the brace. In what guitar is this installation?

It’s a Gibson 1935 Jumbo made in 2003 for Fullers Vintage Guitars. It was my first trance installation and is installed in the recommended place. It was good right from the start. Now I understand why.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I am considering giving this pickup a try. I just played guitar for about an hour for the first time in about three months. I first plugged in my K&K equipped Larrivee and then switched to my Wavelength equipped Taylor. It was night and day. The Larrivee sounded natural & warm and the strings had a nice beefiness to them. The Taylor sounded good for a UST, but there's still that harsh top end. I wasn't expecting the Taylor to sound natural, but I am always surprised by how thin/bright USTs can sound.

There's still this midrange tone that's noticeable with the Ultratonic/K&K that I find a bit annoying, but I feel as though every pickup has a tradeoff.

I'll try to get some demos posted in the other thread of the Martin D-18/UltraTonic 3.2 with my final DIP-switch setting of 5. I think it sounds pretty good for an SBT system.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by aaronmarkson

It’s a Gibson 1935 Jumbo made in 2003 for Fullers Vintage Guitars. It was my first trance installation and is installed in the recommended place. It was good right from the start. Now I understand why.

Thanks! If you're happy with your amplified tone I'd leave the Amulets where they're located.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Yes it is the idea. And it worked: this time. So this single experiment goes with what James May told us.




I am sticking ON the bridge plate. I would probably not dare sticking straight on the top… I would be afraid of damaging the top in case of relocation.

I moved the sensor along the saddle line towards the treble sensor and further away from the X brace.

I am not saying it will work 100% of the time. If you have the Amulet and try to install the best thing to do is CALL Gary Hull… I have to admit that when I called him years ago I did not understand all of what he was saying… I am french and I struggle understanding English on the phone because it goes very fast and I can not see people’s face.

He might have given me that advice and I totally missed it.

It sounds good, Cuki. Also, the Tonewheel is useful in fine-tuning your tone. Are you finished with your Amulet location experiments?

Gary Hull is great to talk to as he'll go on and on about everything you ask him and he'll add experiences that others have had with his Trance systems. I always prepare to spend a good half-hour talking with Gary whenever I call him!

[aaronmarkson]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Thanks! If you're happy with your amplified tone I'd leave the Amulets where they're located.

I am quite happy with it and feel no desire to re-locate them.

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Here is a demo with the Amulet MVT preamp (mono)

The tonewheel is fully open.

At one point Maury's observation was that having the tone wheel at about 85% achieved a similar response as not having it in the circuit at all. I'm curious if you experimented with this and what your findings are.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

It sounds good, Cuki. Also, the Tonewheel is useful in fine-tuning your tone. Are you finished with your Amulet location experiments?

Thanks Ken,

yes I am finished. Now I will try my new IR processes on it

Next move will probably be a DIY dual source pickup with Anthem style crossover onboard preamp, Amulet lens style sensors and internal mic. But I need to think it through. I need to shrink the electronic and design for SMD PCB... A whole new adventure.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by aaronmarkson

At one point Maury's observation was that having the tone wheel at about 85% achieved a similar response as not having it in the circuit at all. I'm curious if you experimented with this and what your findings are.

I remember Gary Hull saying that the tonewheel fully open sounds like the preamp with no tonewheel... which makes sens from an electronic point of view.

However I still made a measurement of the Trance Audio preamp with the tonewheel full open to check.

the little peaks and the top end bump are measurements artefacts. blue and red curve are the two channels responses respectively (with normalized gain).

Note that I measured also the tonewheel response and found nothing weird. It works as advertised.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I've yet to try that one, but I think the idea is brilliant. It combines the general predictability of the K&K with the ability to fine-tune after the fact. Should be a winner.

Doug, after just listening to my Martin HD-28/Trance Amulet M-VT System installed with Henkel Loctite 6-Minute Epoxy, back-to-back with my Martin D-18/Ultra Tonic 3.2 System, I've got to give the edge to the Trance system based on clarity and fullness of tone. Either system is a winner, and for players desiring a passive system, the Ultra Tonic 3.2 would be a good choice.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I remember Gary Hull saying that the tonewheel fully open sounds like the preamp with no tonewheel... which makes sens from an electronic point of view.

However I still made a measurement of the Trance Audio preamp with the tonewheel full open to check.

the little peaks and the top end bump are measurements artefacts. blue and red curve are the two channels responses respectively (with normalized gain).

Note that I measured also the tonewheel response and found nothing weird. It works as advertised.

Cuki, Trance products are wonderful and I've been a long-time fan!

Something of pleasant note that calls into question my earlier comment in this thread: After just listening to my Martin HD-28/Trance Amulet M-VT System installed with Henkel Loctite 6-Minute Epoxy, back-to-back with my Martin D-18/Ultra Tonic 3.2 System, I've got to give the edge to the Trance system based on clarity and fullness of tone. Either system is a winner, and for players desiring a passive system, the Ultra Tonic 3.2 would be a good choice.