Is “QUACK” just accepted!!!

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by lkingston

...For me the solution is a pickup with individual piezo elements for each string. This means that the dynamic range only has to be enough for one individual string at a time. They also tend to be very even volume-wise between strings, but the real advantage is being able to dig into a six-string strum without distortion.

Can you say "Ovation"...?

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Can you say "Ovation"...?

"Ovation!" There I said it, Steve, and loud and proud as a many-time Ovation/Adamas owner since 1978! My new Adamas I 2087GT-8 sounds well-balanced, huge, and defined with no hum, hiss, or other nasties in its signal. The OCP-1K pickup, along with the onboard top-of-the-line Op Pro Studio preamp enables the complete system to pick up string, body, and top vibrations, and to process it all, or not, with some studio-like parameters. I believe the OPC-1K pickup, houses bending-type (someone, please correct me if I'm wrong) piezo elements that help impart a warm signal output.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Can you say "Ovation"...?

Sorry, but never met an Ovation I liked. Between that fugly headstock and the rounded backs and the weird body graphics....uhmmm, no. Wish they would make more traditional looking guitars. And you need to buy their >$1K models to get the good electronics package. The cheaper ones sound horrible plugged in.

[Petty1818]

What taints my view of Ovation is the number of players I have seen at bars using them but with tons of chorus added on. Not sure what it is about that brand, but I see more guys using chorus with them than any other guitar!

With that said, I listen to some of the 70/80's live recordings by guys like Cat Stevens, Paul Simon, Lindsey Buckingham etc., who all used Ovation and their tone is honestly quite nice. Most of them actually had worse tone once they switched from Ovation to Martin/Taylor guitars with Fishman electronics.

In terms of the LB6, I wanted to try that one but when it arrived, I realized it was just a bit too long for my Taylor saddle. I am not one for getting into altering the saddle slot, especially for a pickup I have never used.

With regards to the Takamine, palathetic pickup, I still think it's one of the best. If I had a couple guitars that I loved and just needed a gigging guitar, I would probably get a Tak, Maton etc.

As a point of reference, I am a big fan of a band here in Canada, Great Big Sea. The two guitar players use Takamine guitars and since they are an energetic celtic/folk group, they often do a lot of strumming, which is more on the aggressive side. This is the type of music my band plays as well. They did a live album and it's one of the only live albums I can think of where the band is strumming aggressively and the guitars actually don't sound bad haha:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uRR...1aD-PU&index=2

[lowrider]

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

Even though it was one of my favorite shows growing up, that sounds right out of Miami Vice!

Now that's quacking!

At least it's a good example. although extreme, of what I think of of as ''quack''. It seems like from this thread that some people think of any unpleasant guitar sound is described as quacking.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

What taints my view of Ovation is the number of players I have seen at bars using them but with tons of chorus added on. Not sure what it is about that brand, but I see more guys using chorus with them than any other guitar!

With that said, I listen to some of the 70/80's live recordings by guys like Cat Stevens, Paul Simon, Lindsey Buckingham etc., who all used Ovation and their tone is honestly quite nice. Most of them actually had worse tone once they switched from Ovation to Martin/Taylor guitars with Fishman electronics.

In terms of the LB6, I wanted to try that one but when it arrived, I realized it was just a bit too long for my Taylor saddle. I am not one for getting into altering the saddle slot, especially for a pickup I have never used.

With regards to the Takamine, palathetic pickup, I still think it's one of the best. If I had a couple guitars that I loved and just needed a gigging guitar, I would probably get a Tak, Maton etc.

As a point of reference, I am a big fan of a band here in Canada, Great Big Sea. The two guitar players use Takamine guitars and since they are an energetic celtic/folk group, they often do a lot of strumming, which is more on the aggressive side. This is the type of music my band plays as well. They did a live album and it's one of the only live albums I can think of where the band is strumming aggressively and the guitars actually don't sound bad haha:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uRR...1aD-PU&index=2

Scott, I'd love to attend one of your band's shows as what you play is the kind(s) of music I really dig having grown up through the Folk Era with bands like The Dubliners, The Clancy Brothers, along with The Kingston Trio and other folk groups. I've only recently heard of Great Big Sea as one of their songs was recently played on NPR's World Cafe by host Raina Douris, a name you're probably familiar with.

By the way, it was -42° Fahrenheit up in Timmins, Ontario, this morning, a place near and dear to my younger days.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

...I listen to some of the 70/80's live recordings by guys like Cat Stevens, Paul Simon, Lindsey Buckingham etc., who all used Ovation and their tone is honestly quite nice. Most of them actually had worse tone once they switched from Ovation to Martin/Taylor guitars with Fishman electronics...

I still use my '82 Custom Balladeer fairly often...

One of the reasons those early recordings sounded so good is the fact that they were running through a miked electric-guitar amp - as Charlie Kaman intended - rather than direct-to-board...

I've gone direct-to-house, as well as through a dedicated acoustic-electric amp - as expected, it sounded like total garbage...

If there's no amp at the venue, I'll bring one of my own...

...With regards to the Takamine palathetic pickup, I still think it's one of the best. If I had a couple guitars that I loved and just needed a gigging guitar, I would probably get a Tak, Maton, etc. ...

As you're probably aware, Kaman Music handled Takamine back in the day...

As you're also probably aware, the Palathetic pickup is a variation on Ovation's multi-element design...

If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

I still use my '82 Custom Balladeer fairly often...

One of the reasons those early recordings sounded so good is the fact that they were running through a miked electric-guitar amp - as Charlie Kaman intended - rather than direct-to-board...

I've gone direct-to-house, as well as through a dedicated acoustic-electric amp - as expected, it sounded like total garbage...

If there's no amp at the venue, I'll bring one of my own...


As you're probably aware, Kaman Music handled Takamine back in the day...

As you're also probably aware, the Palathetic pickup is a variation on Ovation's multi-element design...

If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

Yeah, Steve, Ovation doesn't get the respect it deserves for its research and the implementation of its ideas, sigh ...

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Scott, I'd love to attend one of your band's shows as what you play is the kind(s) of music I really dig having grown up through the Folk Era with bands like The Dubliners, The Clancy Brothers, along with The Kingston Trio and other folk groups. I've only recently heard of Great Big Sea as one of their songs was recently played on NPR's World Cafe by host Raina Douris, a name you're probably familiar with.

By the way, it was -42° Fahrenheit up in Timmins, Ontario, this morning, a place near and dear to my younger days.

That's awesome! If I can find a way to upload some videos to Youtube of my band playing, I will definitely send you a message! My wife actually gave birth to our daughter (first child) on New Year's Day, so it's been a bit chaotic here! I am also a teacher and have had to transition back to online for a bit so there's a few guitar related/Youtube things that I have been meaning to do, but have not had the chance!

I actually live around Newmarket (just North of Toronto), so I am not sure where my celtic/folk love came from, but I have always had a connection to the East coast. I grew up listening to the Rankin family (another incredible east coast band) and then GBS. Great Big Sea broke up back in 2012, but Alan Doyle still tours and he is incredible.

I have never been to Timmins, but the drummer in my old band just moved there. I did however go to University in North Bay, so I absolutely get the cold weather. It's crazy how bitterly cold it can get!

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

That's awesome! If I can find a way to upload some videos to Youtube of my band playing, I will definitely send you a message! My wife actually gave birth to our daughter (first child) on New Year's Day, so it's been a bit chaotic here! I am also a teacher and have had to transition back to online for a bit so there's a few guitar related/Youtube things that I have been meaning to do, but have not had the chance!

I actually live around Newmarket (just North of Toronto), so I am not sure where my celtic/folk love came from, but I have always had a connection to the East coast. I grew up listening to the Rankin family (another incredible east coast band) and then GBS. Great Big Sea broke up back in 2012, but Alan Doyle still tours and he is incredible.

I have never been to Timmins, but the drummer in my old band just moved there. I did however go to University in North Bay, so I absolutely get the cold weather. It's crazy how bitterly cold it can get!

Scott, Congratulations On Your New Year's Day Baby Girl! It'll make keeping track of her birthday real easy!

[slooky]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

By the way, it was -42° Fahrenheit up in Timmins, Ontario, this morning, a place near and dear to my younger days.

I worked up in Timmins from August til December and it was outside and yes it was very cold in November/December. I am glad I never had to go back.
Nice looking Ovation btw, is the top, wood? because it looks like something else.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by slooky

I worked up in Timmins from August til December and it was outside and yes it was very cold in November/December. I am glad I never had to go back.
Nice looking Ovation btw, is the top, wood? because it looks like something else.

The Adamas top is a laminate of two outer layers of .005" inch thick carbon fiber sandwiching an inner layer of .025" inch thick birch. Thus the entire top is only .035" inches thick. The top is suspended from the bowl by the suspension ring around the perimeter of the top. This enables the entire top to be easily set in motion by playing, The guitar has a very balanced tone and from what I've read in the past there are no notes that are more than 6 dB difference in loudness from any other note. This is wonderful for recording and live venue playing but may not appeal to some players seeking a Martin dreadnought-like tone. The Adamas fares well in acoustic jazz, pop, and percussive playing styles but wouldn't be very good for bluegrass.

Yes, Timmins can get very cold and I remember from my youth being up there when it was -47° Fahrenheit/-44° Celsius. Several years later, I rode my motorcycle down the middle of Death Valley in the afternoon when it was 118° Fahrenheit/48° Celsius in the shade. I enjoy torturing myself!

[slooky]

I was just curious, I have always liked the Ovation sound. I bet its sweet to play.

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

That's true to a point, but fundamentally, they will all quack. One of the best I have tried is the Headway in my Octave Mandolin, but it requires routing the saddle. It's true that you can play a UST in a way that it won't necessarily quack, but playing that lightly isn't something that we can all do. Not because of lack of technique, but just the style of music.

Well, what you're saying is also true "to a point." Maybe there are some styles out there (maybe Bluegrass?) that simply don't allow you to sound good through a piezo: I can't say there aren't, as I don't know everything. Certainly, playing like you need to drive the top is guaranteed to give you a crappy sound through a piezo. But I do know that saying "they all quack" is an incorrect generalization. My Crowdster doesn't quack. At all. And I play on a loud rock stage, with lots of dynamics, and I certainly don't play "lightly." It's hard to put into words, but there is an adjustment you can make to your attack that, in conjunction with other things (like knowing how to eq,) can give you an excellent acoustic sound with none of the quack people rightly complain about. But it's not automatic: it takes some trial-and-error to get the hang of it but when you do, you can have a very good acoustic sound.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

The "My Guitar But Louder" Syndrome is very much like the Electric Guitar Bedroom Tone Syndrome. Perfect in theory; but mostly useless in real live situations. We tend to be pretty picky with the pursuit of the "natural" tone and not realize that a plugged guitar (regardless of the system) will NEVER sound exactly the way we hear it. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!!

Even with mics or condensers (which need to be put, EQ'd and processed the right way or the guitar will sound like junk), an acoustic guitar needs "help" in a live environment, especially with a band. UST's, for all their disadvantages, still work just fine. I'd argue that a good UST, with a good preamp, can deliver the closest to the tone the player hears which, of course, is different to the tone another person or an audience hears.

In my experience, using any of my Ovation axes with an old LR Baggs Para DI and then to the mixing console is more than enough.