What grain direction of neck block?

[viento]

I´m not sure what grain direction the neck block of the guitar I´m building should have.
My Martins show horizontal direction except my J12-15 which seems to have a multi layer block. The Lowden of a friend of mine has a vertical grain block.
Not easy to decide...

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by viento

I´m not sure what grain direction the neck block of the guitar I´m building should have.
My Martins show horizontal direction except my J12-15 which seems to have a multi layer block. The Lowden of a friend of mine has a vertical grain block.
Not easy to decide...

Vertical should have greater strength, and hence is the way I make my neck blocks.

But anything could happen... Look at this injured guitar that came into my workshop.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

[Rodger Knox]

Horizontal grain is prefered, vertical grain has the top and back glued to endgrain. Laminated is getting more popular.

[fazool]

Vertical will have much more strength but horizontal will glue better to the body (as already stated). So, like everything "it depends". For a bolt-on neck, you definitely want vertical. For a dovetail or mortise and tenon joint I think it is a toss-up.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Rodger Knox

Horizontal grain is prefered, vertical grain has the top and back glued to endgrain. Laminated is getting more popular.

Not really end-grain, but side-grain. A very different thing. Braces for all soundboards and backs are glued on side-grain [edit: correct typo / brain fart] with the grain lines running "vertical" (perpendicular to the gluing plane).

[redir]

I like to have the flat sawn face glued to the sides and the end grain on the left and right sides of the block. The top and bottom of the block reveal the annular rings. A vertical grain block such that the annular rings are on the top and bottom of the block is no fun to plane when fitting the back (or top if you glue the back on first)

[arie]

Originally Posted by HCG Canada

Braces for all soundboards and backs are glued on end-grain with the grain lines running "vertical" (perpendicular to the gluing plane).

i glue my braces edge grain down as split from a billet. perhaps my reference planes are different -are we describing the same thing?



fleta used to use small mortise and tenon'd caps onto his blocks to keep end grain away from the plates. a little more work but i find that it goes by pretty easy and looks cool. works well on the tailblock but is a bit more involved if you do it on a neck block with a fretboard extension.

[Rodger Knox]

Originally Posted by HCG Canada

Not really end-grain, but side-grain. A very different thing. Braces for all soundboards and backs are glued on end-grain with the grain lines running "vertical" (perpendicular to the gluing plane).

That is completely incorrect, you have side grain and end grain backwards. Grain lines perpendicular to the gluing plane is end grain. Braces are NOT glued on endgrain, that's just silly. The longgrain stiffness is 5 or 10 times the crossgrain stiffness (for typical topwoods), if they were glued on endgrain the crossgrain would be the stressed direction.

edit: arie posted while I was typing, what I'm calling side grain is the same as face grain or edge grain in his sketch. We agree on end grain.

[Tom West]

Neck blocks should have the grain running the same way as the sides.
Tom

[Tom West]

Ned: When I build necks I use a 5/16" dowel through the length of the heel, covered by the heel cap. That would have prevented what happened to the classical patient on your operating table. Quite often I put smaller dowels in tail and heel blocks themselves. And of course Baltic birch works for tail blocks.
Tom

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by Rodger Knox

That is completely incorrect, you have side grain and end grain backwards. Grain lines perpendicular to the gluing plane is end grain. Braces are NOT glued on endgrain, that's just silly. The longgrain stiffness is 5 or 10 times the crossgrain stiffness (for typical topwoods), if they were glued on endgrain the crossgrain would be the stressed direction.

edit: arie posted while I was typing, what I'm calling side grain is the same as face grain or edge grain in his sketch. We agree on end grain.

We all knew what Ned meant ...no point in making a meal of it ...

[arie]

hey murray, what is the name of the piece i'm talking about? it's used on furniture carcasses -the m/t caps on the end grain?

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Rodger Knox

That is completely incorrect, you have side grain and end grain backwards. Grain lines perpendicular to the gluing plane is end grain. Braces are NOT glued on endgrain, that's just silly. The longgrain stiffness is 5 or 10 times the crossgrain stiffness (for typical topwoods), if they were glued on endgrain the crossgrain would be the stressed direction.

edit: arie posted while I was typing, what I'm calling side grain is the same as face grain or edge grain in his sketch. We agree on end grain.

Just a brain fart / typo. Corrected (edited corresponding post).

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Tom West

Ned: When I build necks I use a 5/16" dowel through the length of the heel, covered by the heel cap. That would have prevented what happened to the classical patient on your operating table. Quite often I put smaller dowels in tail and heel blocks themselves. And of course Baltic birch works for tail blocks.
Tom

That one was a flamenco (maybe built in Spain, but I can't remember). It had a case of severe temperature shock - coming in from -20 degree weather to +20 degree weather. A shocker of 40 degrees differential. (For our friends down south of the 49th parallel, these are celcius temperatures, not farenheit.)

Interesting idea to use the dowel. Thanks for sharing that one.

[jeff crisp]

The only way to avoid any end grain gluing is to run the grain in the same direction as the sides... though I'm not sure that the top and backs need be a consideration. I was however taught (if I understood him correctly) that you are less likely to develop a hump forming from a drop in RH if you run the grain in the same direction as the sides.