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  #16  
Old 04-06-2013, 01:57 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Originally Posted by Larry Pattis View Post
Charles Tauber *is* reliable, and any inconvenience in traveling to him is worth double in knowing the work will be done correctly.
Thank you, Larry, that's very kind.
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  #17  
Old 04-06-2013, 02:51 PM
roadbiker roadbiker is offline
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If it were me, my guitar, and my money, I'd be bringing it back and tell the guy who performed unauthorized work that now the guitar is buzzing. Make them either fix it or, better yet, get a full refund so you can bring it to the "real deal" (Charles, that is).

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  #18  
Old 04-06-2013, 02:56 PM
Dan Carey Dan Carey is offline
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
HI Dan...

You don't consider neck relief part of the action?


Yes, I do. The truss rod is there to keep the neck straight. String height is determined by the nut & saddle.
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  #19  
Old 04-06-2013, 03:31 PM
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Yes, I do. The truss rod is there to keep the neck straight. String height is determined by the nut & saddle.
I guess that was more concise than my convoluted responses!
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  #20  
Old 04-06-2013, 03:58 PM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan Carey View Post
. The truss rod is there to keep the neck straight.
Or, to be pedantically more accurate ... the truss rod is there to control and adjust the straightness of the neck as required ...
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  #21  
Old 04-06-2013, 04:05 PM
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Or, to be pedantically more accurate ... the truss rod is there to control and adjust the straightness of the neck as required ...
Hi mm...

Yes it is.

And after a pro setup, when seasonal changes set in (which we in the middle of the US with severe winters experience), a tweak of the truss rod (1/8-1/4 turn) will re-straighten it.


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  #22  
Old 04-06-2013, 04:08 PM
Dan Carey Dan Carey is offline
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi mm...

Yes it is.

And after a pro setup, when seasonal changes set in (which we in the middle of the US with severe winters experience), a tweak of the truss rod (1/8-1/4 turn) will re-straighten it.


BINGO! Yes, I routinely have to tweak a +/- 1/8 turn due to seasonal changes here in New England. Thankfully, the R/H in my home remains fairly constant thanks to steam heat in the Winter!
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  #23  
Old 04-06-2013, 04:21 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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Cool DON'T Shim the Saddle with an Anthem!!!

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Originally Posted by leatherlunch View Post
Hi everyone.

I have a Dean acoustic which I recently started having issues with after taking it to a luthier. I was hoping for some advice on how I might possibly solve the problem myself.

I bought an L.R. Baggs Anthem pickup which needed to be installed in the body of the guitar. The luthier that I took it to took the liberty of making some changes to my instrument while he did so. He placed two shims under the nut and said he had to raise the saddle, although I'm not sure he did.

In any case, when I got the guitar back it had a completely different feel and action to it, obviously. We had a discussion about why he did it, which I won't get into, and he then filed down the string grooves on the nut to lower the action at the top.

So, the problem is now fret buzz. The guitar always had buzz on the low E and A string (particularly when I take it down to drop D tuning), and in the past I slipped a small piece of foil under the nut. I'll still likely do that but the buzz is really quite bad now.

In addition to this I'm getting fret buzz on the high E and B strings, which I find especially puzzling.

So my question is this: I gather putting a shim under the nut, putting one under the saddle, or adjusting the truss rod will all accomplish the goal of raising the strings up a few microns and hopefully alleviate the buzz. But which one has the most detrimental affect on the tone (ie. which will make the notes go sharp as I play up the finger board)? Before all this my guitar had beautiful action and didn't go sharp up high, and didn't really have a problem with fret buzz. Obviously, I'd love to get back to where it once belonged.

Thanks for your help in advance. If there's anything else I need to tell you, please ask.
When I had my Anthem SL installed in my 6 string Mark Angus Concert Jumbo, Mark shimmed the saddle a bit, because the Element UST was thinner than the Fishman that was previously in the guitar... the tonal response of the pick-up was all over the board, not good at all...

After talking with Brian, the tech at Baggs, he said the problem was more than likely that there was a shim under the saddle... between the Element and the saddle is the worst way to go, but having a shim under the Element doesn't work well, either.

Had a new saddle cut and installed and the pick-up's response evened out perfectly and it sounds great now!

So, that's my first point - get that shim out of there! (And you will probably need a new saddle cut for it...)

Secondly, the Element UST is enclosed in a slightly "squishy" braided covering; I found that, within a few months, the UST will settle and even out a bit... I don't know if it's just getting more well-seated in the saddle slot or what...

Your guitar should not buzz at all, not in my opinion, whether tuned down or not. I truly dislike hearing any buzzing on my guitars, and I have the action set slightly higher than many might prefer, for that very reason. Sometimes I like to play more firmly, and I like having that option without the buzzing that a severely low action might give.

The truss rod adjustment is really just to adjust the 'set" of the neck, either flat or slightly forward-set; it really is not intended to be used as a way to "adjust" the action of the guitar. Sometimes, one can use it that way, but it's a stop-gap procedure, at best... the truss rod adjustment is also the most frequent "tweak" I have to make on any of my guitars, as the neck set will change due to humidity, seasons, temperatures and the like... whereas a good setup can last me several years or more!

The saddle height is primary in adjusting the action, with the depth of the nut slots secondary (unless the nut is way out of whack) - it sounds like you need to communicate your wishes to that guitar tech, so he can give you what you want... or else find someone else to do the work, although it seems this would fall under a "warranty" issue with the work already finished.

Learning how to communicate exactly what I want in the action of my guitars has been an ongoing process for me... you might get lucky and find a technician who "just happens" to set up your guitar the way you prefer, but I have found that painting a definitive picture for them helps get the job done correctly for my preferences.

Good luck! Let us know what happens! Tell your tech about not using shims with the Anthems...

play on........................................>

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  #24  
Old 04-06-2013, 04:22 PM
Peerless Peerless is offline
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Originally Posted by leatherlunch View Post
Hi everyone.



The luthier that I took it to took the liberty of making some changes to my instrument while he did so.
such people are and should be avoided at all costs...they think their opinion is gold and feel you should be honored to have them make undesired changes to your instrument...been there, done that, worn the same shirt you are now wearing...and just who says this person is such a great luthier? words are easily said, but actions (like you are experiencing) speak the loudest...

Last edited by rlouie; 04-06-2013 at 05:20 PM. Reason: swearing
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  #25  
Old 04-06-2013, 04:49 PM
blaren blaren is offline
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Truss rod adjustments/changes will affect the action. They are not done TO affect the action.

The nut is out of play as soon as you fret a note on that string. If you are getting buzz only on fretted notes, changing the saddle height wont do anything for that.

WHY, after putting shims under it, would he then FILE the slots to lower the saddle????? Certainly NO ONE is that stupid. Why would he cause himself a bunch more work instead of just pulling a shim out??? Makes NO sense.

Could the OP go ahead and tell us what the hack's reasoning behind filing slots in the shimmed saddle was please?

Not much of what this hack did..or how it was explained makes much sense. Put an UST AND shims under the saddle? Creating more buzz? The nut was too high but strings still buzzed so he recut slots in the nut instead of removing a shim...and he didnt raise the action AT THE SADDLE to cure the buzz? The saddle that was one height, shortened to accomidate the UST...TOO much , then shimmed..but not enough...WHAT?
I better go back and re-read the OP.
Couldnt have been an UST. With shims?
Couldn't have deepened the nutslots. With shims under it?

Yeah..I clearly am misunderstanding the OP. Time for a re-read obviously.
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  #26  
Old 04-06-2013, 05:14 PM
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Larry Pattis Larry Pattis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
<<snip>>

And after a pro setup, when seasonal changes set in (which we in the middle of the US with severe winters experience), a tweak of the truss rod (1/8-1/4 turn) will re-straighten it.

So you use the truss-rod to adjust neck relief, not as a primary tool to adjust action.


Quote:
Originally Posted by murrmac123 View Post
Or, to be pedantically more accurate ... the truss rod is there to control and adjust the straightness of the neck as required ...


Of course.
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  #27  
Old 04-09-2013, 12:59 PM
leatherlunch leatherlunch is offline
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WHY, after putting shims under it, would he then FILE the slots to lower the saddle????? Certainly NO ONE is that stupid. Why would he cause himself a bunch more work instead of just pulling a shim out??? Makes NO sense.

Could the OP go ahead and tell us what the hack's reasoning behind filing slots in the shimmed saddle was please?
.
Yeah, he put shims under the nut, which I didn't like the feel of. Presumably it was to combat fret buzz after setting up the guitar, but I should have mentioned that my original nut was not fastened. He glued the shims in and then glued the nut on top of them. Perhaps he was trying to emulate the original height? In any case, it was AFTER I complained about the different feel and action of the strings that he proposed filing down the slots. Obviously, he filed them down a bit too much because now the buzz exists.

I'm going to check out some of Mr. Tauber's suggestions for local luthiers for sure. Thanks for that, Sir!

@jseth - Thanks for your input regarding the Anthem. How has your experience been with this set up? I like the overall sound but I'm having trouble with the brightness and handling noise. I've tried adjusting the settings with the dial and the tiny screw, but to no avail. I wonder how much the installation affects this kind of thing. And I'll definitely ask my new luthier about his/her personal experience installing the Anthem.

@Everyone - so even though I'm going to turn this over to a pro, what's the final conclusion here? I've been seeing mixed information.

If fret buzz occurs when fretting a string, changing the nuts height won't have any effect, correct? However, I've seen people here say that saddle height won't have any effect either. I've also read here people on both sides (apparently) of the adjusting the truss rod fence, some saying you should only aim to have it perfectly straight and then adjust other things (like what?), while some seem to indicate that a slight up-bow adjustment would help remove buzz.
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  #28  
Old 04-09-2013, 01:04 PM
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Larry Pattis Larry Pattis is offline
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You use the truss-rod to get correct relief...not necessarily "perfectly straight"...oftentimes (depending on the player, technique, strings, etc.) this means a slight forward bow.

After that, you make changes to saddle and/or nut height.

The "final conclusion" (IMO) is that no one on the internet can diagnose what, exactly, is happening with your guitar, and with the failed set-up. Only by having the instrument in-hand and on-the-bench can any tech/repair-person (qualified, hopefully) bring your instrument to proper-playability for you and your technique.

The mixed information you are perceiving relates to the mixed amount of knowledge folks have within any diverse group.
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  #29  
Old 04-09-2013, 01:45 PM
steveyam steveyam is offline
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This guy puts a shim under your nut, then files the nut slots down?!?!

Get another guy.
Exactly!! Actually, let's get it right, he put TWO shims under the nut.
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  #30  
Old 04-09-2013, 02:56 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
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When I set up a guitar, I'll set the relief of the neck first, THEN adjust the saddle and finally the nut. I've fixed a a few guitars where it seemed the previous tech would change a saddle or nut and set the action WITHOUT checking the neck relief first; then when the neck is properly adjusted the saddle or nut ends up being too low and shims are used.

If the first four frets are buzzing it's possible that the neck is either too straight or maybe even slight upbow. If so, the saddle will have to be set higher to eliminate buzzing. Then if you drop tune, the neck will straighten out or backbow more (due to the decreased tension) and it will buzz more.
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