Acoustic guiter piezo recording

[Quasar999]

Hello
i’ve an acoustic guitar with an internal fishman isys+ piezo preamp and i would like to record the output with my IPad Air. I,m using a Beheringer Audio interface umc404hd with Midas preamp but the line is quite noisy and the sound seems really muffled.
What’s the matter? Do i need to buy an acoustic guitar preamp to link up at the audio interface?

[Br1ck]

Hard to tell what is going on, but you have a series of inexpensive devices. A lot of noise can come from a bunch of these devices. Plus, even with the best products available, few would actually expect a quality acoustic guitar recording. You'd be better off with a Shure SM 57 mic.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Quasar999

Hello
i’ve an acoustic guitar with an internal fishman isys+ piezo preamp and i would like to record the output with my IPad Air. I,m using a Beheringer Audio interface umc404hd with Midas preamp but the line is quite noisy and the sound seems really muffled.
What’s the matter? Do i need to buy an acoustic guitar preamp to link up at the audio interface?

The fewer "devices" you have in your audio chain the better.

I've been recording all of my audio by running a K&K Pure Mini directly into the input of my Zoom recorder and it produces a totally acceptable sound for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddejlyhC8E

[Quasar999]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

The fewer "devices" you have in your audio chain the better.

I've been recording all of my audio by running a K&K Pure Mini directly into the input of my Zoom recorder and it produces a totally acceptable sound for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddejlyhC8E

Without a preamp? k&k Mini need it.

[shufflebeat]

Your gear is fine.

There will always be an element of compromise with any piezo system as the sound is coming from a small part of the guitar and we're accustomed to hearing sound from several sources, pick, strings, soundboard, soundhole, room, etc..

Do you play the guitar through an amp or PA?
Does it sound "right" in that scenario and sound significantly different recorded?
Does your guitar lead make noise if you flop it about with everything plugged in? (Hope not).
What app are you recording into?

There may be an option for running your recorded signal through an IR loader on playback which can make remarkable improvements.

Lots of questions before answers, I'm afraid.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Quasar999

Without a preamp? k&k Mini need it.

Did the video sound particularly bad to you?

I've installed K&K pure Minis in at least a dozen guitars and a couple of octave mandolins. I haven't found them to "need" a pre-amp, but I suppose there may be situations where they are being used with equipment inputs that aren't designed to accommodate a transducer that likes feeding a 1 meg or higher input.

Good gear usually doesn't need the help of a preamp.

[Quasar999]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

Your gear is fine.

There will always be an element of compromise with any piezo system as the sound is coming from a small part of the guitar and we're accustomed to hearing sound from several sources, pick, strings, soundboard, soundhole, room, etc..

Do you play the guitar through an amp or PA?
Does it sound "right" in that scenario and sound significantly different recorded?
Does your guitar lead make noise if you flop it about with everything plugged in? (Hope not).
What app are you recording into?

There may be an option for running your recorded signal through an IR loader on playback which can make remarkable improvements.

Lots of questions before answers, I'm afraid.

I play the guitar directly in the audio interface.
It sound really quite different. Seems like the sound was cutted on the high and low tone.
The guitar is fine and also the internal amp:i've checked it in a good sound system in a luthier shop.
I'm using garage band.

[Quasar999]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Did the video sound particularly bad to you?

I've installed K&K pure Minis in at least a dozen guitars and a couple of octave mandolins. I haven't found them to "need" a pre-amp, but I suppose there may be situations where they are being used with equipment inputs that aren't designed to accommodate a transducer that likes feeding a 1 meg or higher input.

Good gear usually doesn't need the help of a preamp.

Is this the pickup that are you using?

https://www.thomann.de/it/kk_pure_mi...stern_mini.htm

To me is seems that require also:

https://www.thomann.de/it/kk_pure_preamp.htm

[shufflebeat]

A piezo pickup works best with a high impedance input. This might be provided by an internal preamp, such as:

Originally Posted by Quasar999

...an internal fishman isys+ piezo preamp...

...or an external preamp, with or without controls such as gain, bass/mid/treble, a suitable DI box or an amp or interface designed for the job.

Once the signal has been "buffered" in this way then just about any input we might encounter will have negligible impact on tone. What happens after that is a different matter.

In your case, assuming the system is operating properly then what you've described is not a surprise. Anyone who records a piezo will have dealt with this in one way or another.

I'll have a look at Garageband on my iPad and get back unless someone else gives you an appropriate answer in the meantime.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Quasar999

Is this the pickup that are you using?

https://www.thomann.de/it/kk_pure_mi...stern_mini.htm

To me is seems that require also:

https://www.thomann.de/it/kk_pure_preamp.htm

Yes. I use the K&K Pure Mini in almost all of my instruments.

I have used them with different preamps, including the next model up from the preamp you linked to. In some cases the preamp improves tone (slightly) such as running them directly to a guitar amp input. I've found in most cases the preamp is not necessary. Of course, anyone is free to spend the money and add another device in the signal chain if they feel it improves the tone of their instrument.

K&K even states that a preamp is not strictly necessary. Here's a copy / paste from their website:

***********************************************
"The Pure Pickup is our award-winning, signature pickup for acoustic guitars. Installed on the guitar's bridge plate, the Pure Pickup is the the best choice for achieving a rich, natural guitar sound -- even without a preamp!

Our customers tell us that it's the best passive pickup on the market, which means it's the perfect plug-and-play solution for the musician who wants a warm, full-range signal without worrying about cluttering up their instrument, adjusting onboard electronics, or having to remember to change the battery."
***********************************************

Here's another example of the K&K Pure Mini, but in this case the main guitar that you hear is plugged directly into the Cube EX amp and recorded with the portable recorder positioned in front of the amp.




None of that really helps you, though.

Have you tried patching your guitar output directly into your iPad? That would eliminate a couple of places that your audio may be degraded. The Fishman with built-in preamp by itself shouldn't sound "muffled".

[penrithrdstudio]

Originally Posted by Quasar999

I play the guitar directly in the audio interface.
It sound really quite different. Seems like the sound was cutted on the high and low tone.
The guitar is fine and also the internal amp:i've checked it in a good sound system in a luthier shop.
I'm using garage band.

I have a guitar with a similar system, and the standard sound is very mid-dominated - on mine I don't have EQ controls but there is a Contour button which scoops out a lot of the mids. Otherwise turn the mids down and the treble up. As others have said, check your cable and your battery, and make sure your gain is set correctly on the audio interface - I use a UMC404HD and find it is nice and quiet. Finally, I nearly always find myself dipping the mids and boosting the treble slightly in post processing, even when using a mic to record the guitar, so don't expect it to sound perfect straight into the software.

[MarkF_48]

Quick experiment with my UMC404HD.......
Plugged in a Strat with single coil PU's to the 1/4" jack on the interface. Tried both the LINE and INST (Instrument) setting switch. The LINE setting had much lower gain and sucked the tone out of the sound. The INST setting had significantly more gain and the guitar had a much brighter and clearer tone. I think, but not 100% sure the LINE input Z is 3kohms, while the INST is specced at 1Mohm. I tried the Strat as I knew it would be most affected by impedance of an input. Not sure how much an acoustic guitar with a builtin preamp would be affected. If it's set to LINE, try the INST and see if the sound may open up a bit.

Could you post a short clip of the guitar recorded with the interface and the IPad Air?

[shufflebeat]

In the meantime you may like to check out the recording app I use on the iPad which has an IR loader included.

It works quite well swapping files between MTS and Garageband where necessary. I use it because it has a better time signature setup.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/multit...ad/id776998585

[shufflebeat]

There is a convolution reverb and cab-sim loader called Thafknar which can be used to load an IR made for your guitar using software helpfully provided on these pages, if you're interested I can point you towards it.

The IR is loaded into Thafknar which is opened as an effect on the guitar track in Garageband. That should get you most of the way there.

Thafknar is £2.99 to use all the features you need.