Why I love my Schertler AG-6

[lkingston]

I just used the AG-6/S-Mic at an open mic last night. With that particular system the only way I could avoid feedback was to turn the mic way down to the point where you couldn’t really hear it. I’ve had no problem with my Skysonic FS-1 (mag + mic) at the same venue. The sound I get at home with my Elite Acoustics D6-8 with the Shertler pickup is simply amazing, but I do have to EQ it and use a notch filter to get there. I can’t make the FS-1 sound nearly as good, but last night, from the audience perspective the sound would have been far better.

Later that same night one of my friends borrowed my guitar and played his set. The difference was that is is a four chord strummer and he was playing quite a bit louder than I do with my jazzy no nails fingerstyle. In that context the guitar and pickup sounded wonderful! Pretty much like a miked guitar.

I have a three hour gig at the same club this Thursday. I know I won’t use that guitar and pickup there unless I bring an EQ pedal. I have a Boss AD-10 which has the EQ and notch filters that I need to make this guitar and pickup sound stellar.

That or I could bring my Martin DX1/Skysonic FS-1 and get pretty good sound wirelessly just plugging the receiver into the board...

I’m certainly glad I bought the AG-6/S-Mic. The sound is as good as I’ve ever heard coming from an amplified. With my particular soft playing style I just need some outboard processing to go with it.

[dogdog49]

I used to run my AG-6/S-Mic with its cable out the sound-hole to channel 2 of my Compact 60 with the installed K&K out to channel 1. Still possibly the best amplified sound I've ever heard, and significantly better than either on their own.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by dogdog49

I used to run my AG-6/S-Mic with its cable out the sound-hole to channel 2 of my Compact 60 with the installed K&K out to channel 1. Still possibly the best amplified sound I've ever heard, and significantly better than either on their own.

I'm using the AG-6 / S-Mic in conjunction with a set of Dazzo 70's - my luthier managed to find a 4 way end pin socket and wire the combination such that the Dazzo's come out on the tip and the Schertler combo on the ring - the battery switching is being managed using the extra connection on what is a very hard to find endpin setup. I'm running the Dazzo's through a Sunnaudio preamp and the Schertler is going straight into the board (Bose T8S).

Simply unbelievable sound, with an immense amount of control.

[lkingston]

What I’m finding is that it is very difficult to get live sound at any kind of volume with the AG-6 and the S-Mic turned up. I am far better off using my DX1 with it’s Skysonic FS-1 pickup. I can get far louder without feedback and it is just far more practical for gigging.

I would be very frustrated with my Shertler purchase except that I just plugged it into a mixer and headphones with a flat EQ and just a little reverb. Holy cow does it sound great! I’m sitting in the dining room which is next to the kitchen and I’m getting the most incredible acoustic guitar sound! The refrigerator and air-conditioner are running but I can’t hear them. There is absolutely no discernible self noise. I have the mic all the way up and while I know the magnetic pickup is there intellectually, I just don’t hear it. This is definitely my recording setup going forward.

Just for fun I plugged the Skysonic FS-1 into the same setup and the magic is gone and it sounds like a pickup. I hear some background hiss which I hadn’t noticed over my amp or PA.

I think going forward I am going to use my AG-6/S-Mic equipped Martin D15M solely for practice and recording and my DX-1 with it’s wireless and far more feedback immune FS-1 pickup for gigging. I’ve been getting complements like crazy on the FS-1 sound and it is cool that it is wireless. Boy does the AG-6/S-Mic sound good though when you aren’t using it without an amp or monitor!

[lkingston]

I’m doing a 3 hour gig tonight and I have decided to use my Martin D15M with the Shertler AG-6/S-Mic pickup. I’m going to use it with my Boss AD-10 preamp which has two notch filters and an EQ with high pass and mid frequency adjustments which should let me dial out the problem frequencies. Before that I am going to stop by an open mic at my other favorite venue. I will report back here how it goes.

[lkingston]

At the open mic, two different guitarists complimented me separately on the guitar sound after my set. At the bar gig later that same night, there was hardly anyone there so I never got a chance to turn the volume up.

At both places, it only worked this time because of the two notch filters in my Boss AD-10. I had to use them both and still keep the mic pretty low to avoid howling feedback. It did work well though and sound very good once I got the sound dialed in.

It was the same sort of feedback issues that one would expect with any miked guitar, so I’m not sure I’m complaining. The Skysonic FS-1 certainly is far more feedback immune, even if the sound isn’t quite as beautiful. They may have a bit of an EQ curve built into the FS-1. The Shertler S-Mic is definitely a more sensitive mic.

Another thing about the S-Mic is that it is less sensitive to handling noise. On the FS-1, you can hear your fingers touching the guitar when you adjust the mic volume. On the S-Mic, you don’t hear your fingers when you adjust the mic volume. Even if you touch the mic when it is turned up, you don’t hear it. It’s kind of like the difference between an SM-58 and a cheap mic in terms of handling noise.

I think that this gives the illusion that the Skysonic mic is turned up more than it is when you are adjusting the mic volume. I’m still not sure how good or bad handling noise is when it comes to a guitar mounted mic. With the handling noise mic sensitivity, you can capture the tapping on the guitar with a lot less mic volume, which is kind of cool. On the other hand, without the handling noise sensitivity, you are probably getting more “mic air” in the sound as compared to tapping noise.

I do know that at the open mic last night I hadn’t thought the sound was that good over the monitors, but two separate guitar friends made a point of coming up to me individually to compliment me on how great the guitar sounded (with the Shertler). One of them is a guitar tech and he said that it was the best amplified guitar sound he had heard.

I also know that this pickup needs a preamp with notch filters (at least for my soft no-nails fingerstyle). I used both notch filters on the AD-10 last night, and if I had a third one I would have used it as well and run the mic a little hotter.

One last thing is that at the three hour gig last night, I felt like I could hear so much detail in the guitar. Every little fret buzz or missed articulation seemed to jump out at me far more than I am used to. At the beginning of the first set this was unnerving, but as the night went on I started to feel at home and enjoy the extra sensitivity.

[meb]

Hello all....I thought I would give an update on my AG-6 adventures.

On Gig #2, I used my smaller L1C and had to use a notch filter to tame some feedback issues, but it still sounded ok with mic basically dialed to 'off' (i.e.
all the way 'left'.

During home tests, I pulled the s-mic out of the AG-6 and got a totally
different sound than with the mic installed but 'off'.
So, there is some mic being used when plugged in...even at zero. The AG6
sounds very good even without the mic, and has fewer, if any, feedback issues.
The bottom line is I plan to yank out the s-mic-m if I have any problems with it.

I have 4 gigs this month. I have installed the AG6 in my bigger RSC to see
how it works out. The point of all this is to use the s-mic when you can, but
have a backup plan if feedback is unbearable. I agree with lkingston that
this thing is super sounding when dialed in, but can be fussy about feedback.

AndC, now that you have the AG6, I would be curious as to your thoughts
as to how it compares to the Black Angel (my ultimate backup).

Michael

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by meb

During home tests, I pulled the s-mic out of the AG-6 and got a totally different sound than with the mic installed but 'off'. So, there is some mic being used when plugged in...even at zero.

Michael

This frequency response graph from the S-Mic manual shows what is actually going on:

When you in the S-Mic in, the frequency responses of each are altered to better compliment each other. Below 1k, the magnetic pickup is louder than the mic. Above 1k the mic is louder than the magnetic pickup while the high frequencies are brought down in the magnetic pickup. This is exactly the way it should be since the magnetic pickup does a better job if reproducing the lows without feeding back while the highs are better from the mic.

The problem is that if you dial back the mic due to feedback (which is necessary if you aren’t using notch filters and careful EQ), then your highs are scaled way back.

Yes, pulling the S-Mic out does restore some of those highs to the S-Mic, but a magnetic pickup doesn’t have much high frequency content anyway.

There is also a lot more bass coming out of this pickup than from others.

As I see it, this pickup just needs an external EQ or a good soundman to use live.

On the other hand, if you turn the mic all the way up it is just a phenomenal recording pickup. I recorded some guitar tracks for a song my son is working on and it sounded like a well miked guitar!

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by meb

AndC, now that you have the AG6, I would be curious as to your thoughts as to how it compares to the Black Angel (my ultimate backup).

Michael

The Black Angel has served me well, and is a fabulous pickup. The Schertler is in a different league in terms of its' ability to produce a more accurate and "hi-fi" studio sound to my mix, but I use it much more sparingly than I did the BA because now my main pickup is so good (Dazzo / Sunnaudio). I tend to dial in the sound such that the Schertler just adds a little more air in the higher frequencies. I also add a little delay to the Schertler so that it "thickens" the overall sound. However, the Dazzo / Sunnaudio combination is so good on its' own that in the future I can see myself just utilising that set up.

[meb]

Thanks to lkingston for the explanation. Now it makes more sense. I had
no idea that the frequencies were altered.

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by meb

Thanks to lkingston for the explanation. Now it makes more sense. I had

no idea that the frequencies were altered.

When I was recording with this yesterday, the bass frequencies were rich and full. It sounded like all mic but without the rumble of the air conditioner and outside traffic. I believe that this is why you can’t set the balance to all mic: because they are using the magnetic pickup for the low frequencies.

The current Fishman Rare Earth blend has a switch to cut the low frequencies from the mic. This makes sense as well.

As compared to the Rare Earth Blend, the S-Mic is an omnidirectional mic but the Fishman is a cardioid. This is why the Blend mic is on a gooseneck that you can aim. With the omnidirectional it doesn’t matter and the fixed extender makes sense.

On the YouTube demos of the Blend, you can hear the fingers of the person doing the demo touching the volume control of the pickup. With my Skysonic FS-1 you also can hear your fingers touching the volume control when you adjust it. You don’t hear that on the AG-6 with the S-Mic. Volume adjustments are silent and in fact, you can barely hear any handling noise even when you touch the mic. Personally I really like this. I want more “mic air” than tapping sensitivity.

The Achilles heel of the AG-6/S-Mic is it’s proneness to feedback at any sort of louder volume. My Elite Acoustics D6-8 amp has extensive features which handle this well (notch filter, EQ with sweepable mid frequency and a high pass filter) and the sound I get at living room volumes with this amp is spectacular. The experience would be nowhere near as satisfying with an amp with a simpler EQ like a Loudbox Mini or a Henriksen Bud.

At gigs with a house PA, you would pretty much need to have some sort of preamp that lets you notch and set center frequencies in order to use this pickup with the mic. If you dial out the mic, you lose high frequencies because of the way they split the frequencies between the mic and the pickup. You can physically pull the mic out of it’s jack to get the full frequency response from the magnetic pickup. These observations are from the perspective of a no-nails fingerstyle player. With louder strumming with a pick this would be less of an issue.

I really love this pickup in spite of its proneness to feedback. I also have a Martin DX1 with a Skysonic FS-1 pickup (with built in wireless transmitter). That setup sounds very good live without any sort of a preamp and has absolutely no feedback issues at reasonable volumes. I’ll probably just gig and do open mics with that. I get compliments all the time on the sound with that setup. I would never record with the FS-1 though.

The AG-6/S-Mic is a wonderful recording pickup. I’m not saying that it sounds as good as a great mic in a real recording studio, but for home recording in a living room, a bedroom, or outside, I have never heard anything even close to as good. Since that is the only environment I record in, this is a really big deal.

Let me put the AG-6/S-Mic into context for live work. It sounds very much like a miked guitar. It also feeds back very much like a miked guitar. It’s a little better, but not much. If you are doing an intimate performance where miking a guitar would be practical, the AG-6/S-Mic is going to be perfect. I would never mic a guitar if I only had a two or three band EQ. I wouldn’t use the AG-6/S-Mic with a simple EQ either.

I recently saw Alison Krauss in concert and all the guitars were miked. The concert sound was exquisite but soft. When I went to the sound booth after the show to complement the soundman on the best live sound I had ever experienced, he had just finished talking to some irate fans who thought it was way too soft and were not nearly as happy! The AG-6/S-Mic would be a wonderful alternative to miking the guitars for Ms. Krauss’s band.

The AG-6/S-Mic would be a terrible choice for a Jethro Tull tribute band (or any loud band with acoustic guitar). Other options are far better for loud stage volumes. It would be a good competitor for a clamp-on mic or something like that.

[lkingston]

You know, maybe strike most of that previous post.

I’ve got my PA set up in the living room and turned up really loud. If I just barely turn the mic up at all (like maybe an eighth of the way up) it actually sounds pretty phenomenal. This is in contrast to on the Skysonic FS-1 where I usually turn the mic all the way up and the magnetic pickup up less than halfway.

What is deceptive about the AG-6/S-Mic is that because it is so well insulated at handling noise, you don’t notice how much Mic you are adding with barely a turn of the dial because you aren’t hearing it in the touch of the body as much. There is definitely more air vs body touch as compared to other mag mic pickups. The mic on this goes much hotter (in spite of the fact that you can’t dial out the pickup entirely.

I’m playing a set at a local coffee shop this evening and I’m going to try this pickup again with maybe an eighth of a turn of the mic dialed in and no special EQ or notch filters. Judging by how it sounds right now on the PA in the living room it will probably sound great. Not the phenomenal mic like sound I get with the mic dialed all the way up on a recording, but great for a pickup.

Edit: Coffee house set went really well. No feedback issues at all at an eighth of a turn mic, and I heard plenty of mic.

[lkingston]

Definitely, the Shertler AG-6/S-Mic sounds great at typical live volume levels with the mic up just an eighth of the way. I just A-B’d it with the Skysonic FS-1 in my other guitar and the 1/8 of a turn of the mic of the Shertler is about the same as having the mic all the way up on the Skysonic and the magnetic pickup dialed back to less than half! The lows and the mids sound about the same, but the Shertler has all this sparkling air that is completely missing on the Skysonic. I really liked the Skysonic FS-1...a lot... but the Shertler just completely blows it out of the water!

[lkingston]

At this point I’m completely happy with my AG-6/S-Mic. I basically use it with three levels of mic depending upon the situation.

1) Live in a typical gigging situation: about an eighth of a turn mic. Sound is primarily the excellent sounding magnetic pickup but with a touch of body sensitivity and “mic air”.

2) Mic all the way up for recording: At that level you don’t really hear the magnetic pickup but it is there reinforcing the bass frequencies subtly. I’ve worked with recording acoustic guitars in a pristine recording studio environment with some great mics. Obviously that is still better, but this gets you surprisingly close to that level of sound quality in your home studio.

3) Somewhere in-between for intimate low volume situations. At low sound levels with the mic volume up about half way, the sound is just beautiful and more in keeping with other systems that sound great but feed back if you push them. In these situations, you turn the mic up until it begins to feed back then just dial it back a little.

I love the way this pickup sounds in all three of the above situations. I just ordered a second one for my Martin DX1 which I often use for open mics and gigging. I really like that one pickup installation can handle these three different scenarios equally well. I’m using this live with no preamps or other devices between the guitar and the soundboard.

[lkingston]

I did a a set at a place last night, and because it was the Fourth of July, what is normally a large and boisterous crowd was small and quiet. I turned the mic up quite a bit and it sounded wonderful. That is one of my favorite things about mag/mic pickups in general: that you can balance the amount of feedback resistance against the intimate quality of the miked tone.

I will be using it again tonight for three sets at the same place with my singing partner. Because it’s still so close to July 4th (and many people might be making a long weekend of it), I have no idea of what kind of crowd to expect.

If it is a large loud crowd, I will dial the mic back to an eighth and have a blast with what still is a very good sound. If it is a small crowd, I will dial the mic up and have a tone very much like what I would get with an LR Baggs Lyric: beautiful and intimate. If it is something in between, I will adjust the mic volume accordingly.

No preamps, external EQ, notch filters, blend systems, personal amp, etc. I’ll just bring my guitar, my Audix OM-5 mic, and an iPad for lyrics and chords. No multiple trips to the car before and after the gig. No lengthily stage setup. No going home after setup to shower and change clothes. No in depth sound check. The sound will be a little bit better than it was when I did all those things. Yeah, I’m happy!