Thoughts on laminate guitars

[rllink]

Another thing for me, I like playing guitar but I'm not into it enough to spend a couple thousand on one. I'm right at a price point where I can get a pretty sweet laminate with a solid top, or a cheap solid wood guitar that doesn't take advantage of it.

[hermithollow]

Originally Posted by printer2

This summer I plan to make a high performance plywood guitar. Basically take three good tops and thin them down and laminate them together, so three times the cost of using just one top. Most likely maple as the back and sides. Basically to see how it will turn out being built for performance and have a guitar that is more tolerant of atmospheric conditions.

Isn't that how some Yamahas are made - spruce plywood?

[redir]

Originally Posted by printer2

This summer I plan to make a high performance plywood guitar. Basically take three good tops and thin them down and laminate them together, so three times the cost of using just one top. Most likely maple as the back and sides. Basically to see how it will turn out being built for performance and have a guitar that is more tolerant of atmospheric conditions.

Have you given double top a thought? I had thought of this in the past. Lam back and sides and a double top which is essentially a plywood guitar.

[Rosette]

My Takamine dread is solid spruce top with laminate back and sides of nato maybe, I'm not sure. I think it sounds excellent for the few hundred bucks I paid for it years ago

Though I have nicer guitars now, the Takamine is still a keeper, I play it regularly and it's nice to not worry too much about leaving it out on a stand year round.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by blakey

Many people assume old cheap Yamahas were plywood top and body laminated, but I read that a lot of models may have actually been solid Jacaranda wood.

They would have been guitars in either the L-series or the early '70s FG1500 and FG2000 models with Jacaranda back and sides-Yamaha's first 'handcrafted' efforts which morphed into the L-series in later years. The body design of the FG2000 which differed from today's familiar FG style was later adopted by the L-models. Fine guitars if you can find them.

[personatech]

Originally Posted by blakey

Many people assume old cheap Yamahas were plywood top and body laminated, but I read that a lot of models may have actually been solid Jacaranda wood.

That may be true for Japanese domestic market products, but the old Yammies shipped over here almost HAD to be laminates because the old container ships' holds weren't climate-controlled. Too many solid-wood guitars split on the trip across the Pacific.

[personatech]

For what it's worth, my Seagull S6 Slim with cedar top and lam cherry b&s generally sounds better than my all-solid Eastman E1OM. Different body size, true. I keep the Eastman because it's a bit easier to play due to its nut width and scale.

[personatech]

Originally Posted by generalliamsayn

One feature of laminates (for better or worse) is that they don't change - i.e. "open up" - as much over time. So if you like the tone, you're good and, consequently, if you don't like the tone, you're rather out of luck because it ain't gonna evolve.

I've heard this before but I would think that the process of opening up - the drying and evaporation of certain resins in the wood - would still occur in a laminate, just not to the degree nor as quickly as it would in a solid wood guitar. In other words, the opening up might not be as "deep" (never completing the process through the entire thickness of the ply) but it would still happen closer to the surface.

[CoastStrings]

I only have a long-term sample size of 2 Yamaha C40's (mine and a relative's), but what I've noticed is that:

1. The instruments seem to sound better as they are played-in over time. They sound better than out-of-the box versions that we play at shops.
2. The instruments sound better the longer they are in a less humid environment (but not so dry as to cause the guitars to crack)
3. Better strings can make a difference. On laminate classical guitars, carbon strings brighten the trebles. I don't have string recommendations for steel-string laminates since I haven't owned one.
4. Item 2 seems to have a more favorable effect on the tone than tweaks like switching plastic nuts/saddles for bone.

My solid-tops and all-solids still sound better than both laminates, but the laminates are still very good instruments considering that we paid ~$100 for each. We have absolutely no interest at all in parting with either.

[otis66]

I just got a Martin 000-X1AE with the HPL laminate back and sides.
Has a nice tone, and the StrataBond neck feels great.

[printer2]

Originally Posted by hermithollow

Isn't that how some Yamahas are made - spruce plywood?

Most likely.

Originally Posted by redir

Have you given double top a thought? I had thought of this in the past. Lam back and sides and a double top which is essentially a plywood guitar.

No, no interest right now. The point would be to see if you built a lightly built laminate guitar how good can it be? Can it hold its own against a solid body guitar. I would think I would have to build a solid body along side it. Possibly adjusting the deflections to come out the same. That might result in lighter braces given the center ply giving more cross grain stiffness. I don't know, which makes me want to try.

[Karma]

I really like my 1981 Yamaha SJ-180. Picked it up for $125 about 6 months ago as my “camping guitar” so the really nice ones can stay safe at home when we are on the road.

[started with 1]

Buy the guitar that sounds and feels right for your ears and your hands. Laminate guitars also have the benefit of not needing as much humidity care. Laminate does not mean poorly constructed.

[dyna]

In the OPs video I think the old FG 180 sounds so much better than the 50th anniversary.

I once had a 1973 FG 180 and I sold it like fool...
I know how good an all laminate guitar can sound, at least the Yamahas.
And I don´t agree wih the common thought that laminates don´t change (for the better) over time. At least some do.

Last week I scored an all laminate 1979 FG 350 w.
These are quite hard to come by.
I don´t know if it´s true but I´ve heard they cost $ 600 in the USA in the 70´s... So, too expensive.

Here is a little video I made just for fun, doesn´t say much (Iphone recording)
but at least you hear some kind of tonal differences.
´20 Martin Westside Custom 0-15m, ´34 Kalamazoo KG-11, ´79 Yamaha FG 350w, ´21 Eastman E2D CD:

https://youtu.be/KO4sCx6wjzU

[brushknee]

Originally Posted by CoastStrings

I only have a long-term sample size of 2 Yamaha C40's

Also have 30 year old Yamaha C40, back when it was mahogany b/s and neck (could be wrong). Changed out the tuners for the $25 wooden buttons and that really helped to stabilize. Have some bone nut/bridge I figured I'd try.

Like the OP said it has an open comfortable resonant feeling picking it up. The neck is worn.

It's been through hell without a case, chipped on the edges, sounds scary good compared to solid yamaha GC costing 10 times more (which I own so I compare all the time SMH about how good the cheap old thing sounds).

I put my iphone inside to look at the bracing, it's just 3 squarish planks haphazardly glued on. I don't know where the comfortable sound comes from. Mahogany?

I have 3 downsized 3/4 yamaha CG student guitars, made with the modern cheaper wood choices, and they sound like Ukes. No comparison. Same haphazard bracing. The C40 is magic.