#1
|
|||
|
|||
stereo recording XY
How far back from the mics do you have to be to get a true stereo recording? I'm recording an acoustic guitar with a matched pair of Oktavas. Thanks.
__________________
When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down, “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life. —John Lennon |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
Technically a couple or three inches I suppose. You do need to be further back though to get something that sounds natural (getting sound
from a larger area of the guitar, avoiding overwhelming proximity effect and maybe to get some recording room reflections acoustic effect).
__________________
Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above Last edited by rick-slo; 01-24-2021 at 10:48 AM. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks rick- slo. I've heard everything from a foot to 3 feet.
__________________
When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down, “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life. —John Lennon |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Try spacing them out about a foot or so back, one pointed at the neck body joint, one pointed at the bridge. Engage a high pass filter for the the one aimed at the bridge, cutting off the low end around 80hz. It depends on your playing style and the guitar so those suggestions are simply a place to start.
I've grown to like a spaced pair much more than X-Y. Maybe you will too. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
While you are experimenting try ORTF as well. It gives a slightly wider stereo field.
|
#6
|
||||
|
||||
You asked about XY but if you're open to a spaced pair setup I think you will get a better sound from the instrument.
__________________
Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
It's a tradeoff, and up to the sound you want. In a really good studio, you could put them back 3 feet and it might sound great. The guitar has a chance to "bloom" at that distance. In most home environments, you'll get too much of the room, and thing will sound distant, or lots of other bad things. As you get closer you get more of the guitar, less of the room. As you get closer than about 16 inches, proximity effect starts kicking in, which increases bass response. So you get a tonal change depending on how close you get - totally up to you what sounds good. You'll also get an increase in stereo width as you get closer - think about how wide your computer screen looks to you from 3 feet away compared to 3 inches away. Nothing wrong with any location, from inches to feet, it all depends on your room, mics, guitar and the sound you want.
You also have choices of where you put the mics. For solo guitar, I'd suggest even with the waist of the guitar, above the soundhole as a starting point. And of course you can also get a wider sound with ORTF or spaced pairs.
__________________
Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I’ve used XY (my album of Miles Davis tunes) and ORTF ( my Ballads and Blues record) but if I had them to do over I’d use a spaced pair as I have on other records. Or maybe mid/side. That said, when I have used X/Y and ORTF I preferred not thinking of them as a more distant stereo technique as I believe they we originally intended, but rather have them close enough the they’re posted roughly as neck joint and just behind the bridge. Seems like if you pull them back another foot or so and you’re pointed at the fifth fret and empty space beyond the endpin.. A little off topic; but lately I’ve been playing around with a very close spaced pair in Omni. Since one characteristic of omni is seemingly almost no proximity effect, I find I can get them as close as four inches. And yet they seem to be taking a pretty wide picture of the guitar, maybe like a wide-angle lens used for a very close portrait photo. My room is not ideal, by any stretch, so I was worried about that with omni, but that close I don’t think I’m hearing it remotely as negative way I thought I would.. Doug, have you played around with omni pairs? Maybe I’ll start another thread |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
You can also try the vertical ORTF and the inverse vertical ORTF (near-coincident pair) .
Why vertical? Because with any spaced pair the biggest negative is spectrum differences as one mic points at the body and the other at the neck or headstock. By turning the array on its ear you insure that approximately the same spectrum will be presented to the mics. It feels weird at first, but remember: the mic doesn't know its spacial orientation, only the sound presented to it. Why the inverse ORTF? IF you use the spacing and angles for the ORTF and simply invert from obtuse to acute, the phase properties of the ORTF are maintained but in a small room the cardioid patterns end up focused on the place where you point the mics rather than on the room. Bob
__________________
"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' " Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website) |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
I've tried X-Y a few times, but as others have posted I feel A-B spaced pair works better for solo acoustic guitar. With a spaced pair you can set the distance from the mics to the guitar, the distance between the mics, and the angle of the mics to best accommodate (1) balance between the direct sound from the guitar and the room sound, (2) control proximity effect, (3) control the stereo width, and (4) point the mics at the primary areas of the that you want to pick up. Space pair arrangement also allows choice of mic polar pattern (cardioid, omni, etc).
__________________
Chuck 2012 Carruth 12-fret 000 in Pernambuco and Adi 2010 Poling Sierra in Cuban Mahogany and Lutz 2015 Posch 13-fret 00 in Indian Rosewood and Adi |
#11
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I'll see if I can find a track. I didnt spend as much time tweaking things as I would have liked, but i recall getting a big and intimate sound.
__________________
http://wwww.celticfingerstyleguitar.com Albums: The Isolation Waltz Noone Lasses Youtube Music on Spotify |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks everyone for your ideas. This isn't for solo guitar, but rather guitar as a backing instrument, sometimes fingerpicked, sometimes strummed. I'm not sure yet what the final arrangement will look like. Many of the songs will have other instruments and voices.
__________________
When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down, “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life. —John Lennon |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
In that case, you may just want to record in mono - one mic. Stereo's good when the guitar is the featured instrument. In band-type arrangements, you usually end up panning instruments around to create an artificial sound stage, and that's easier to do when each instrument is mono.
__________________
Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Doug, since the guitar will be the main instrument, I do like to have it a little wider than smack dab in the middle. Though it surely is easier to record in mono! It's a folk-ish album I'm working on.
__________________
When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down, “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life. —John Lennon |