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  #16  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:09 AM
rolltide rolltide is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman1951 View Post
I don't know. To save about the price of a good pick? Doesn't sound like a great idea. Maybe in a guitar that only cost a few hundred.

But that's just me. I don't have a bunch of guitars and $50 doesn't change my lifestyle any.
If you saw 50 bucks laying on the ground you wouldn't stop and pick it up ?
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  #17  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
50 bucks for a good pick?
Apparently we have different views on picks.
Some folks aren't as fortunate and 50 bucks is 50 bucks.

The JJB jack is just fine, no issues with mine.
Hi rd

I've never paid full-retail-price for a K&K (there are techs and repair people with dealer licenses who sell them routinely for $80 around here).

Locally, I can get a K&K pickup and have it installed for $135, and a dual source for under $200.

Every time I play in front of a crowd my sound represents me to the audience. That's why I show up with a $350 preamp. My guitars are all serious investments, and my cheapest is around a $600 guitar, and even it has a Dual source rig in it.

My 'youngest' K&K rig is 9 years old, my oldest now nearly 14 years old. Pro-rate the cost over that time period, and I'm in my pickup system for less than the price of a couple set of strings a year.

I'm not tempted to save $50.


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  #18  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:52 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Hey lj,
I understand. It's really not a big price difference and trust me, I buy the best I can afford because it matters to me. I am using a Fire-eye twin pre-amp. Not inexpensive but excellent.
I thought I would try a JJB mostly to see how it performed and it works great.
I don't even know if a K and K would be better. Maybe so, maybe no, but I got my JJB installed for $85 including the pickup. I'm happy and so are you. That's great for both of us.
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  #19  
Old 02-08-2019, 10:04 AM
Grizzly Adams Grizzly Adams is offline
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I installed a JJB in a mandolin. Outstanding pickup! FWIW, my luthier says there is "not a dime's worth of difference" between the K&K and the JJB. )
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  #20  
Old 02-08-2019, 10:09 AM
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I'm intriqued by the Ultratonic. Seems pricey at $269 and only 2 shops in the USA.
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  #21  
Old 02-08-2019, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by stormin1155 View Post
I've installed both K&K and JJB in customer's guitars. I can't tell the difference, so I always recommend JJB. Jesse, the owner is a great guy and has made up special application pickups for me.
Ditto, same experience. Jesse is awesome, and very responsive.

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  #22  
Old 02-08-2019, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
Hey lj,
I understand. It's really not a big price difference and trust me, I buy the best I can afford because it matters to me. I am using a Fire-eye twin pre-amp. Not inexpensive but excellent.
I thought I would try a JJB mostly to see how it performed and it works great.
I don't even know if a K and K would be better. Maybe so, maybe no, but I got my JJB installed for $85 including the pickup. I'm happy and so are you. That's great for both of us.
HI rd

I've compared a JJB-330 with the K&K-Pure Mini over the course of a week, side by side through all my acoustic amps and PA. The sensors on the JJB are 15mm as opposed to the K&K 12.5mm. The JJB are close to the size of the K&K Original Pure Western (which are overly bassy for acoustics, but wonderful for 12 string guitars).

Two of the considerations in my choice of the K&K Pure mini were size of the sensors (my OM bridge plate is very small) and tone (because of the over-bassy sound of the original K&K which was 15mm).

Both pickups were professionally installed (superglued in) by a guitar tech, and both were in OM guitars which exhibit similar tonal properties when played acoustically.

The amplified tone on the JJB became thinner the harder they were pushed to match the volume of the K&K. I set each properly for input gain and then managed the overall volume of each with the Master volume/output signal. I tested them without external preamps, and with. I played them and had others play them while I tweaked and listened.

Without a preamp, the output on the JJBs was about 75-80% of the gain of the K&K Pure Mini (perhaps the hottest pickups on planet earth). Preamplified I had to give it a lot more input and output gain.

I was able to get acceptable tone from either…15-20% extra headroom is going to mean less noise in a system.

And the guy who I bought the JJB for and had installed in his guitar was thrilled. He'd been playing it for 10 years through an SM-57, so it provided him tons more control for playing in his band.


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  #23  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:30 PM
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JJB was the one I was thinking of. Thanks for that. I hadn't heard of the ultra tonic but I'm going to check it out. I appreciate all of your responses.
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  #24  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
The JJBs used to ship with a really cheap import jack. I don't know if they still do or not.
Now it ships with switchcraft standard jack.
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  #25  
Old 02-08-2019, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
HI rd

I've compared a JJB-330 with the K&K-Pure Mini over the course of a week, side by side through all my acoustic amps and PA. The sensors on the JJB are 15mm as opposed to the K&K 12.5mm. The JJB are close to the size of the K&K Original Pure Western (which are overly bassy for acoustics, but wonderful for 12 string guitars).

Two of the considerations in my choice of the K&K Pure mini were size of the sensors (my OM bridge plate is very small) and tone (because of the over-bassy sound of the original K&K which was 15mm).

Both pickups were professionally installed (superglued in) by a guitar tech, and both were in OM guitars which exhibit similar tonal properties when played acoustically.

The amplified tone on the JJB became thinner the harder they were pushed to match the volume of the K&K. I set each properly for input gain and then managed the overall volume of each with the Master volume/output signal. I tested them without external preamps, and with. I played them and had others play them while I tweaked and listened.

Without a preamp, the output on the JJBs was about 75-80% of the gain of the K&K Pure Mini (perhaps the hottest pickups on planet earth). Preamplified I had to give it a lot more input and output gain.

I was able to get acceptable tone from either…15-20% extra headroom is going to mean less noise in a system.

And the guy who I bought the JJB for and had installed in his guitar was thrilled. He'd been playing it for 10 years through an SM-57, so it provided him tons more control for playing in his band.


Thanks for taking the time to make the comparison.
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  #26  
Old 02-09-2019, 08:08 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakybird View Post
Thanks for taking the time to make the comparison.
In my experience, I don't find the JJB to be overly bassy.
As far as output, I'll just take lj's word for it. I'm playing mine through a Fire-eye pre-amp which is a "state of the art" product so I don't notice any thinness at higher volumes.
I am certainly one who believes you should buy what you can afford and believe in.
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  #27  
Old 02-09-2019, 08:55 AM
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I've noticed that some folks who can afford it, will buy the most expensive product they can find, then downplay everything else to those of us who can't afford what they have. It's true with guitars, amps, pickups, cars and just about everything else. I believe, in their minds, it puts them on a higher plateau than the rest of the the great unwashed and they get off on it. Personally, I've used both K&K and JJB and never used a preamp with either and can hear no discernible difference between them - they both sound just fine. Does that make my ears not on a par with someone else's? I guess that's another point to argue. The JJB costs about forty bucks or so delivered and you can install it yourself in 20 minutes - it's not rocket surgery, folks.
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  #28  
Old 02-09-2019, 01:36 PM
musicman1951 musicman1951 is offline
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[/size][/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip Ellis View Post
I've noticed that some folks who can afford it, will buy the most expensive product they can find, then downplay everything else to those of us who can't afford what they have. It's true with guitars, amps, pickups, cars and just about everything else. I believe, in their minds, it puts them on a higher plateau than the rest of the the great unwashed and they get off on it. Personally, I've used both K&K and JJB and never used a preamp with either and can hear no discernible difference between them - they both sound just fine. Does that make my ears not on a par with someone else's? I guess that's another point to argue. The JJB costs about forty bucks or so delivered and you can install it yourself in 20 minutes - it's not rocket surgery, folks.
I'm sorry you felt that way Skip. I think if you re-read the earlier posts you'll find no references to the great unwashed - or anything like that.

I'm a retired music teacher, so I'm pretty sure I don't qualify for hanging with the rich.

For me it's a question of if the gamble is worth $50, and to me it is not. Larry can hear the difference, so it's not to him either. That doesn't mean I light cigars with $50 bills, it just means the sound of my guitar is not worth that particular gamble when the payoff is $50. It's a risk/reward thing for me.

And I agree 100% that if you don't have the $50 to play with it's a different decision. But I clearly didn't say that it was a bad gamble for everyone - just for me. Isn't that what we do here?

But I am on record as often saying that nobody should pay for sound they don't hear. If you don't hear a difference don't pay a difference.

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  #29  
Old 02-10-2019, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman1951 View Post
[/size]

I'm a retired music teacher, so I'm pretty sure I don't qualify for hanging with the rich.

For me it's a question of if the gamble is worth $50, and to me it is not. Larry can hear the difference, so it's not to him either.
That’s the thing. If Larry can hear the difference I’m pretty sure I’ll hear it too. My ears are extremely sensitive to nuance.

The pickup system I’m considering will be going in a 1972 D35. It is probably one of the best sounding guitars I’ve ever played, bar none. So my requirements are getting the most natural out of it when plugged in. Also I don’t want any pickup that will be visible and hate piezos. I’m gritting my teeth as I’ve been avoiding even enlarging the end pin for a jack- but I think I’m ok going there now.

However you guys got me thinking about putting a JJB in my’81 MIJ epiphone. $50? Maybe I’ll do that. [interesting thought]... How functional is the sound hole volume control for an extra $30?- I do have a small Baggs GigPro preamp which provides basic volume, gain, treble, bass control.

Alternately, for the D35 I think there is a Baggs pickup that mounts under the BRIDGE and has a mic on the backside (without the piezo)... Which model is that?

Thanks for the dialog. You guys have been very helpful.
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  #30  
Old 02-10-2019, 12:51 PM
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I'm just going to repeat what I said earlier. I'm pretty fussy about tone and sound reproduction. I will also say that while I'm not wealthy, I can afford what some would consider expensive pickups. In fact, I've bought a few.
Having said that, I am entirely happy with my JJB. I decided to try something from a nice guy who seemed genuine and committed to his product.
I think it sounds great.I wish you all could hear it. I'm sure you would concur. Is the K&K better? I can assure you I have no idea.
If someone feels more comfortable with a K&K, I can totally understand that.
It's not that much more money for the piece of mind some folks want and deserve. Best wishes to all!
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