Emailed Gibson with a crazy idea

[L50EF15]

Maybe this belongs in the Custom Shop section; mods, please move if that’s the case. But given that it involves archtops, I figured I’d post here.

As many of you have seen, I recently bought a 1925 L Jr. I love this guitar; punchy, resonant, dynamic and very easy to play with that mid 1920s neck profile. The week before, I was very impressed with a J45 Studio (walnut) that I tried at Guitar Center. In fact, if I hadn’t been completely smitten with the Junior, I’d have gone back and gotten the Studio. But the two experiences got me thinking.

Why not put an arched top and back onto a J45 Studio or its cousin the G45? In the grip of insomnia and thinking about this, I just emailed Gibson to see if their Custom Shop can build such an instrument.

The pessimist in me thinks they can’t or won’t, that unless it’s an L5, Super 400, or Citation, Gibson won’t do custom acoustic orders beyond different finishes and levels of bling for their flattops. But I hope I’m wrong about that. Heck, I would even spec a solid pressed top to make it more cost effective to make (and for that matter to buy). A G45 with a pressed solid top and back would be especially cost effective.

Anyway, does anyone have experience with the Gibson Custom Shop? And what are your thoughts on my wacky idea? Of course, if Gibson says no, I will go vintage again and track down an L75 (the one I tried when I bought the L Jr really was nice) or roundhole L4. Or I will break down and finally get a J45 of some kind.

[CopyCat]

I have no experience with the Gibson custom shop but am curious whether they’ll consider your request!

[L50EF15]

Got a reply; it may be possible! They said I should contact a local authorized Gibson Acoustic dealer to discuss it and that the dealer would help with working out specifics and pricing.

This could get interesting. I might have to put off that wisdom tooth extraction a little longer…

[Steve DeRosa]

You might find this of interest:



https://reverb.com/item/52058452-gib...ntage-sunburst

FYI several years ago Gibson produced a 17" jazzbox with a solid pressed top that was tagged at $6500 - needless to say sales were dismal, considering that a comparable fully-carved instrument could be had from Mark Campellone or Stephen Holst for around $5K:



https://reverb.com/item/69609459-gib...n-burst-w-ohsc

I'd recommend making an offer on one (or both... ) of the instruments above, and getting that wisdom tooth taken care of - given past precedent I figure you're looking at no less that $7500 (and likely more) out the door, given that it's a Custom Shop buiild ...

[Sam Sherry]

Originally Posted by L50EF15

Why not put an arched top and back onto a J45 Studio or its cousin the G45?

You might want to scout for a 1933 or 1934 L-50. According to the usually highly-reliable GuitarHQ site, of the 1932-34 archtop / roundhole / small-D shaped L50s the one closest to your target is Version 3 from 1934, with the 1933 V2 a more-distant second.

Here's a '34 V3. It's freshly listed and looks pretty nice (although you might want extra pics to rule out a peghead repair).

Frankly, given the specificity and relative rarity of your target, you might just think about jumping on it and enjoying the guitar that arrives.

It's 15" not 16", so not a perfect match, but mighty close. These even come with a flat back like a J50.

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

You might find this of interest:

https://reverb.com/item/52058452-gib...ntage-sunburst

I'd recommend making an offer on one (or both... ) of the instruments above, and getting that wisdom tooth taken care of - given past precedent I figure you're looking at no less that $7500 (and likely more) out the door, given that it's a Custom Shop buiild ...

That instrument has had a lot of discussion on The Belgian Site.

I had a medium-long thing for late-20s / early 30s Gibson L4 / L75 guitars. That makes me someone who is most likely to suffer from GAS for that precise guitar, which is the first 1930s-style L4-ish guitar Gibson built in many decades. Even so, those long cracks from the ends to the soundhole make me think that precise guitar got crushed during shipping.

I'm not going to buy it. I'm going to stare at it regretfully and not buy it. All good luck to the next owner.

[L50EF15]

Steve, you and Sam raise thoughts for serious consideration. That prototype L4/75 style solid formed archtop or the ‘34 L50 (which would be nice symmetry with my 1960 f-hole version) would be the most cost effective way to go. Both are very reasonably priced.

I am on the subway home from work. Since my route goes right through Atlantic Avenue terminal, I popped upstairs into Guitar Center to see what they could tell me about the ordering process. It flummoxed them. Not the design (the guy helping me is a jazz player and his main guitar is an ES 175, plus he’s a big Django and Eddie Lang fan so he understands what I have in mind), but it appears they rarely get anyone trying to do a custom order with Gibson.

Anyway, we traded contact information and he’s going to look into the process and get back to me. Of course if the quote is in the $7K range Steve posits (and that would not surprise me in the least), I will definitely move to alternatives. Still, as the guy at Guitar Center agreed, an archtop dread is intriguing.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by L50EF15

...Since my route goes right through Atlantic Avenue terminal, I popped upstairs into Guitar Center to see what they could tell me about the ordering process. It flummoxed them...it appears they rarely get anyone trying to do a custom order with Gibson...

You might want to try Rudy's on your day[s] off: Although I've never been to the Broome Street location, based on my experiences with the old 48th Street shop they're more in tune (pun intended... ) with what you're after - and from what I've seen it's a great way to spend an afternoon, playing their collection of vintage archtops...

[L50EF15]

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

You might want to scout for a 1933 or 1934 L-50. According to the usually highly-reliable GuitarHQ site, of the 1932-34 archtop / roundhole / small-D shaped L50s the one closest to your target is Version 3 from 1934, with the 1933 V2 a more-distant second.

Here's a '34 V3. It's freshly listed and looks pretty nice (although you might want extra pics to rule out a peghead repair).

Frankly, given the specificity and relative rarity of your target, you might just think about jumping on it and enjoying the guitar that arrives.

It's 15" not 16", so not a perfect match, but mighty close. These even come with a flat back like a J50.



That instrument has had a lot of discussion on The Belgian Site.

I had a medium-long thing for late-20s / early 30s Gibson L4 / L75 guitars. That makes me someone who is most likely to suffer from GAS for that precise guitar, which is the first 1930s-style L4-ish guitar Gibson built in many decades. Even so, those long cracks from the ends to the soundhole make me think that precise guitar got crushed during shipping.

I'm not going to buy it. I'm going to stare at it regretfully and not buy it. All good luck to the next owner.

Sam, I just popped over to The Belgian Site (a good thing; I have been away from there too long) and read through the entire thread.

Arrrgh! It looks like Gibson really had something with these Solid Formed instruments and fumbled the bag on pricing (the numbers Steve quotes above are quite high). The acoustic properties are lauded in that thread. If Gibson had adapted this method to volume production instead of Custom Shop use, they’d have owned the archtop market as they did in decades past (NYC Epiphone notwithstanding).

My crazy idea probably will be quoted at something prohibitively expensive even if I spec Solid Formed top and back, so I probably will wind up with something vintage. The cracks in the SF prototype are significant enough that the price is reasonable, but the ultimate cost would be higher because of necessary repairs.

Much to think about. As memorably put by William Gibson in Count Zero, “first thing you learn is you always have to wait.” I’m definitely looking into all of the possibilities, but I’m going to have to wait to get it right.

[L50EF15]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

You might want to try Rudy's on your day[s] off: Although I've never been to the Broome Street location, based on my experiences with the old 48th Street shop they're more in tune (pun intended... ) with what you're after - and from what I've seen it's a great way to spend an afternoon, playing their collection of vintage archtops...

If I can get to work early tomorrow, I’ll leave early and do exactly that!

I used to feel a bit intimidated by the 48th Street location. I could tell the place was (to use a Southern expression from my youth) “high cotton.” Of course, so was Mandolin Brothers, but I didn’t have the same feelings of…inadequacy. Maybe it’s because I was actually able to afford and buy a couple of instruments at Mandolin Brothers back at the turn of the century. But I have to check out Rudy’s for sure, if only for the irony of sharing the name 😉

Rudy

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by L50EF15

If I can get to work early tomorrow, I’ll leave early and do exactly that...I have to check out Rudy’s for sure, if only for the irony of sharing the name...

It's a sign from the Great Beyond - your new guitar awaits...

[RLetson]

Anybody in the NYC area who wants to explore archtops (or any other variety of guitar) ought to visit TR Crandall Guitars in the East Village. Especially if Tom is available. There's a lot of very top-end stuff in the shop, and also an enormous stock of information and straight talk.

Maybe it's just me, but for the amount of money a handbuilt archtop commands, Gibson is probably the last place I would go looking. We seem to be in another golden age of luthery. (I have a handbuilt archtop that I suspect Gibson could not match.)

[L50EF15]

Originally Posted by RLetson

Anybody in the NYC area who wants to explore archtops (or any other variety of guitar) ought to visit TR Crandall Guitars in the East Village. Especially if Tom is available. There's a lot of very top-end stuff in the shop, and also an enormous stock of information and straight talk.

Maybe it's just me, but for the amount of money a handbuilt archtop commands, Gibson is probably the last place I would go looking. We seem to be in another golden age of luthery. (I have a handbuilt archtop that I suspect Gibson could not match.)

I will have to get to the East Village. Couldn’t make it to Rudy’s today, but I’ll try to get to both this weekend.

You raise a fair point about sources other than Gibson. But I do things like this: Give me a Sturmey-Archer three speed hub any day of the week and twice on Sunday versus any Shimano hub on my bicycle: the original and (for me) the best. For me, archtops are similar. Are there boutique instruments better than the average Gibson? Sure, and at least since D’Angelico and Stromberg. But the sound I hear in my head, the sound jazz guitar was essentially built upon, is Gibson for better or worse.

I may yet go vintage/recent used, but I will go Gibson.

[RLetson]

Don't count Epiphones out. At one time I had both a '47 L-7 and a '46 Broadway. The L-7 was a very good one, but it was the Broadway I took to gigs. The L-7 got sold on to a young player who appreciated it, so it didn't have to sit in a case, unplayed.

[L50EF15]

Originally Posted by RLetson

Don't count Epiphones out. At one time I had both a '47 L-7 and a '46 Broadway. The L-7 was a very good one, but it was the Broadway I took to gigs. The L-7 got sold on to a young player who appreciated it, so it didn't have to sit in a case, unplayed.

Many years ago, I missed the chance to add an Epiphone Broadway or Triumph to my stable. Mandolin Brothers had a number of them. Those still buzz around in the back of my head.

What would be the Epiphone equivalent to an L4 or L75?

[stevo58]

Originally Posted by L50EF15

Many years ago, I missed the chance to add an Epiphone Broadway or Triumph to my stable. Mandolin Brothers had a number of them. Those still buzz around in the back of my head.

What would be the Epiphone equivalent to an L4 or L75?

This will give you all the dope on NY Epiphones, including detailed features per model and year -


https://wiedler.ch/nyepireg/


The top of the line 16” (not counting the early 16” Deluxe) is the Spartan. That would be the L4 equivalent. A late -40s model with a carved walnut back is a tremendous guitar.

I have a 1950 Devon, which was a short-lived model just below the Triumph. Laminate mahogany back, solid mahogany sides, cherry three-piece neck, 17 (+3/8)” lower bout. I get a lot of compliments on it - it has The Tone you want from a guitar like that. It also projects out the wazoo. It has absolutely killed my GAS for an acoustic archtop. And it has a wonderful C neck profile that is just soooo **** comfortable to play.