Calling DOUG YOUNG

[runamuck]

Hi Doug,

You've mentioned several times here an acoustic guitar pick up system, or possibly an ancillary device that, in your opinion, sounds as mic-like as anything you've heard.

I've tried finding your comment in past posts but haven't been able to.

Can you help me with this? It may be a tone pedal or something like that in conjunction with a piezo under saddle pickup - I just can't remember.

Thanks, Jim

[Gordon Currie]

Not Doug, but your description sounds a lot like the ToneDexter.

But Doug probably has a few hundred posts on that!

You might try private messaging him so he can see it sooner.

Also, this might have been better to post in the Acoustic Amplification subforum.

[AcousticDreams]

Here is a super Great Video Doug did on the Tonedexter!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH9Qs3FZLYc

[Doug Young]

Scary seeing my name in all caps :-)

I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to, and pickups tend to be personal - one person's idea of what sounds good probably doesn't match another's in most cases.

For what it's worth, what I use is one of: Dazzos, Barbera, or Trance, all thru ToneDexter. For added "realism", I add an internal mic to all of these, and run through a Sunnaudio preamp that creates a stereo image from the combination. While the resulting stereo sound works great for me live, and I think it sounds the best of any pickup option I've tried for recording, I wouldn't say it competes with a well-mic'd guitar for recording, it's just not as bad as other alternatives I've tried. But my taste might not match yours.

Another approach I've tried is to use 2 ToneDexters (or work out your recording to be able to reuse one twice). For me, a good recorded guitar is stereo - but I'm always dealing with guitar as a featured instrument, so if you're working with a fuller mix, that may not be the case. Anyway, I did do some experiments where I created ToneDexter images for the different mic positions of a typical stereo mic setup, then recorded a (mono) pickup, reamping thru ToneDexter to create the left and right sides. Between ToneDexter and the enhanced sense of space of the stereo image, that sounded pretty decent too - tho still not competitive with real mics , it was just a fun thing to try.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Scary seeing my name in all caps :-)

Doug your name deserves to be in All Caps!

[Doug Young]

Here's an example (I've shared this before), of my setup. This is a Martin OM, with Dazzo's and a Bartlett internal mic, thru the Sunnaudio preamp. Just recorded direct out of my pedal board. I'm actually not sure if ToneDexter was involved here, I don't find it has a big effect on the Dazzos. I don't think this would fool anyone that it's a mic, but it sounds pleasant to me, for a pickup.

[anton]

Man, that sounds great. Also considering it was recorded direct, I bet through a set of speakers in a room it would sound even more natural.

Every time I watch one of Doug's new pickup or acoustic amplification demos I want to go spend some money to upgrade my setup. I should probably start with adding an internal mic to McIntyre pickup, and run that into my DTAR Solstice, which can accept a stereo signal

[alohachris]

Aloha Jim, Anton, Victor, Doug & Friends,

There is no doubt that Doug has provided us with so much gear info through so many media plus 'how to record' video's, pickup comparison samples & his famously great-sounding & well-played clips of great original & other music. Hats off & Mahalo a nui to you Doug for decades of support & Ha! mostly great vibes.

Anton, yes, go get an internal mic installed to combine with your McIntyre. It'll sound great through a DTAR Solstice (yet another great piece of affordable gear to bite the dust). Adding a mic is the only way for an acoustic guitar to sound like an acoustic guitar in a live mix, despite the environmental challenges of using a mic in some venues.

I've always thought that the guys who just slapped in a UST or Magnetic P/U, or buy a guitar with just a UST are really more electric guitar players not looking to replicate pure acoustic qualities than acoustic players. Chasing acoustic purity is not that sonically important to them or their music - not enough for them to actually put the time into auditioning - and spending the money on - the dual-source & control gear that will promote more of a pure acoustic tone in a live setting.

But like many of us here, seeking pure acoustic guitar tone live or in the studio is a lifelong pursuit that's in our blood forever. Ha! I mean, look at me, I can't even play or record anymore & yet here I am, discussing acoustic tone & how to achieve it. Fascinating topic. Impossible goal.

Oh, it never ends! But the pursuit is worth it for those moments when your ears say, " Ah, that works!"

Buy that internal mic, Anton & Jim. Many to choose from, many used ones, not too expensive. Experiment where to place it. For internal mic's, I prefer hyper-cardioid, very directional condenser mic's, not omni's that pick up too much noise from the guitar box. The sweetspot for me is always at around 4 o'clock on the soundhole, suspended about half an inch below the top & soundhole, tucked inside the guitar, pointed up at the high E & B strings.

In my three remaining gigging guitars, I still use AKG 416 internal hypercardioid, condenser mic's mounted on the bottom side of the guitar. I EQ the P/U only for the natural highs rolling off everything else. I combined it with a K&K mini SBT pickup, EQ'ed only for the low-end & for the non-feedback qualities & presence. Then I mixed them to separate channels on my Pendulum SPS-1 stereo preamp, trying to always use as much mic as the space would allow. I don't feel I need anything that adds mid-range presence to that mix like a Tonedexter, Fishman Aura or other modeling gear. My smaller guitars sound balanced & great without that & I like a more open, natural sound.

Note: My guitars are all self-made Koa 00 or 000 sized 12-frets with slightly deeper sides. That smaller, size really helps control feedback live & helps make an SBT sound more natural & present to my ears. It allows me to EQ the two sources specifically to the frequencies I desire. The great pre allows me to tailor the mix to the gigging space & control it live.

As we all know here, the quality of the preamp is the key to controlling the internal mic-SBT combo in gigging situations. I used many, many dual-source systems - many self-made - for over 50 years of gigging. But the Pendulum SPS-1 preamp (also discontinued) gave me the best control, period.

To Jim. Put togther your own dual-source pickup-mic combo. You need that mic in a live mix more than a Tone Dexter. ToneDexter? Meh... Just figure out how to control the mic in a live dual-source system for that natural, un-modelled sound of your guitar.

Good Luck!
alohachris

[runamuck]

Thank you, Doug, for your response here and all the help you've provided me and others over the years.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Scary seeing my name in all caps :-)

dOuG yoUnG - is that better?

Sorry, just kidding around, like the kids do.

Doug, I just want to write how helpful, knowledgeable, and generous you are. A few years ago I also appealed to you for help, and you kindly gave it to me without hesitation. That was really cool. It stuck with me.

Also, so neat of you to include tab with your cd. You're a fine fellow. Thank you for making this forum really special and thank you for being so special. Finally, you play so well.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by mc1

dOuG yoUnG - is that better?

Ah, Ransom Note style. Much better... Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. Runamuck, hope that answered your question!

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Ah, Ransom Note style. Much better... Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. Runamuck, hope that answered your question!

Thanks again. Yeah, your answer is exactly what I was looking for but couldn't remember. I have a friend needing to install a system in a guitar he just built and I was telling him about your review of the Tonedexter.