String Tension, Long & Short Scale

mikethebook · #1 03-06-2021, 06:27 AM

I play a short scale (24.9") guitar with 130 lb silk & steel strings and the setup works well for my aged hands. But if I moved to a long scale guitar (25.4"?) and used the same strings, how much would I have to detune in order to get the same tension/feel of the strings as I had on the short scale? Are we talking half a step or more or less than that. If I bought the long scale I would like to have it set up so that properly detuned and using a capo I could have the equivalent if possible of my short scale guitar in terms of string tension and feel. Your thoughts please.

RodB · #2 03-06-2021, 06:46 AM

The difference in scale length would increase tension to 135lb. Tuning down just a semi-tone would reduce tension by 15lb, so would overcompensate quite a lot.

mikethebook · #3 03-06-2021, 10:50 AM

Wow! As much as that. I realise that my strings are rated as 130 Ibs on a regular long scale guitar so are perhaps about 125 Ibs on my short scale. To get a similar tension/feel on a long scale guitar I should go then for strings rated 125 Ibs? Am I thinking this through properly?

RodB · #4 03-06-2021, 01:52 PM

It’s such a small difference that other factors such as neck profile and width, a small difference in set-up could affect playability more than this tension difference. You might not even notice it...

Deliberate1 · #5 03-06-2021, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodB

It’s such a small difference that other factors such as neck profile and width, a small difference in set-up could affect playability more than this tension difference. You might not even notice it...

I have to agree with this. My easiest guitar to play by far is a Huss and Dalton short scale (24.9"). And my most challenging (for me) is my Bourgeois dread which is 12 fret but 25.4" scale length. I would say that it takes at least 20-25% more pressure to properly flatten the strings on the dread. And it has an optimal set up done at Dana's shop. I have come to the conclusion that scale length matters, but is not the only factor in determining the "stiffness" of a guitar.
David

charles Tauber · #6 03-06-2021, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikethebook

Your thoughts please.

Why?

What are you trying to accomplish by going to a longer scale?

mikethebook · #7 03-07-2021, 02:32 AM

Thanks for your thoughts. What am I trying to accomplish by going to a longer scale? It's a question of my limited budget and not being able to find a short scale guitar with the bridge string spacing and nut width that I would like. It's not an ideal situation.

charles Tauber · #8 03-07-2021, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikethebook

It's a question of my limited budget and not being able to find a short scale guitar with the bridge string spacing and nut width that I would like.

What spacings do you want and what spacings can you find? There might be some remedies depending on how large is the discrepancy.

Silly Moustache · #9 03-07-2021, 03:42 AM

Coupla points - a "long scale" would be over 25.5" -and the only one I ever had was 26.5"

25.4 & 25.5" scales are more commonly regarded as standard scale as you would find on a dreadnought.

Smaller scales vary from 24.5 , 24.875, and 24.9"

Archtops tend to be 25"

Obviously dreadnoughts are std scale and really require medium gauge strings to work properly.

Original 000 are also std scale (14 fretters shorter for some reason) both probably best with light gauge.

00 and smaller are short scale with lights.

If you really want to determine string tension, I find this one is the best:
https://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html

Robin, Wales · #10 03-07-2021, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Coupla points - a "long scale" would be over 25.5" -and the only one I ever had was 26.5"

25.4 & 25.5" scales are more commonly regarded as standard scale as you would find on a dreadnought.

Smaller scales vary from 24.5 , 24.875, and 24.9"

Archtops tend to be 25"

Obviously dreadnoughts are std scale and really require medium gauge strings to work properly.

Original 000 are also std scale (14 fretters shorter for some reason) both probably best with light gauge.

00 and smaller are short scale with lights.

If you really want to determine string tension, I find this one is the best:
https://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html

That is amazingly counter intuitive Andy? Although I know it is the convention (dread mediums, 00 lights etc). It should be longer scale = lighter strings at the same pitch for the same tension and shorter scale = heavier strings at the same pitch for the same tension. So a 24.5 00 would be "better" with medium gauge strings and a 25.5 dread would be "better" with light gauge strings. But, as you say, mediums are the convention on some Martin dreads (not all) and lights are the convention on smaller bodied guitars. Unless you are Tim O'Brien who puts mediums on his 00-18 Martin!

AndrewG · #11 03-07-2021, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Coupla points - a "long scale" would be over 25.5" -and the only one I ever had was 26.5"

25.4 & 25.5" scales are more commonly regarded as standard scale as you would find on a dreadnought.

Smaller scales vary from 24.5 , 24.875, and 24.9"

Archtops tend to be 25"

Obviously dreadnoughts are std scale and really require medium gauge strings to work properly.

Original 000 are also std scale (14 fretters shorter for some reason) both probably best with light gauge.

00 and smaller are short scale with lights.

If you really want to determine string tension, I find this one is the best:
https://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html

I have to disagree Andy. The few times I tried mediums on dreads I was less than satisfied with both the tone and feel. My preference has always been 12-53 lights which work 'properly' very well indeed on all my guitars whatever the size or scale.
Let's not forget that not all dreads, or guitars in general, are created equal, and what may sound and feel great on one guitar may well not work as well with another. For example, I tried mediums on a very lightly built SCGC Tony Rice as an experiment and it sounded terrible; the top was strangled. There is no rule that stipulates mediums are required on dreads other than personal preference.

EZYPIKINS · #12 03-07-2021, 06:24 AM

Grew up playing electric. 12 is a light B string to me. Played in a live band setting all my life. when playing acoustic. I found a too heavy a string would cause me finger fatigue. And when I'd switch back to electric, I'd be worn out. I went to .011's and things got better. So now, 30 years later, 011's are my go to. I like them the best on my Gibson 24-3/4 scale. I can tell the stiffness get greater even in my Martin 000-15 at 24.9" And my Dean 25.5". and Guild 25-9/16" even more so.