Bone saddle - not an upgrade in sound for this yammie

[sstaylor58]

So I posted last week about a NGD for a Yamaha FSX800C. Changed out the strings to elixir PB’s and put in a new McNichols bone saddle, which is my go to upgrade. Also tried to use Taylor ebony pins but they were too big so I stayed with the standard plastic pins. After these changes, gone was my beautiful, mellow sounding yammie, hello to a big, brash almost metallic sound. Thought it might be the elixirs because I know they take a bit to settle in/warm up. Waited a few days, played it a lot, and couldn’t stand the sound. Tonight I changed out the bone and re-installed the stock plastic saddle and bingo! The sound I fell in love with at the dealers was back! I always assumed bone was an upgrade, guess it’s not for all guitars. Lesson learned.

[DWKitt]

Post Deleted

[Macpage]

You mention it could be the strings. I am always hearing strange things after string changes. Maybe it's a piece of bone with inconsistencies or something gets a little off on the shape of the new saddle. In my experience, it doesn't take much, and instruments can be funny about these things.

My luthiers never could get a bone saddle to sound right with my dread. It has always sounded best with the original very loose fitting Tusq saddle. I also can't see any saddle making the spruce/rosewood Yamaha I just purchased with Tusq sound any better. Yet, I put a Tusq saddle in my spruce/walnut Alvarez, and it was an instant no go. I much preferred the original bone saddle. Who knows.

All we can do is keep trying until it sounds right. Keep enjoying your yammie!

Best,

Mac

[Rogerblair]

Being a long time fan of bone saddles, I made new saddles for my FG830 and FS820. I didn’t like the tonal change that resulted. I re-installed the factory urea (whatever that is...sounds medical) saddles.

I do use bone pins, however.

Rb

[Chas007]

Originally Posted by DWKitt

I have the FG800 and as far as strings are concerned I'm currently running with GHS Silk & Bronze, tuned down half a step, and these are producing a rich, vibrant, mellow tone which I'm really enamored by. I really love this tone (and the guitar). I also changed to a bone saddle I bought on Amazon. I'm not sure what brand though. I really can't perceive any difference in sound. I left it in anyway.

I have almost the same scenario. I have a FG700S. First I changed to a bone saddle purchased from Amazon. I immediately noticed more sustain. I have GHS silk and steel on mine. I love the way it sounds.

[sstaylor58]

So I like the change back to the stock saddle on the 800, I change the saddle back to the original on my FSX730SC, and it noticeably change the tone for the better....smoother, more rich, not brittle or metallic like before.

[gmel555]

Originally Posted by sstaylor58

I always assumed bone was an upgrade, guess it’s not for all guitars. Lesson learned.

I can confirm this as well. I've changed out synthetic saddles for bone 5 or 6 times. In all cases but one it was a noticeable improvement. I have a 25 year old Larrivee D-19 with a graph tech saddle. Now I had always liked the tone on this guitar a lot, but wondered if bone would take it to even another level. It did, but it was the level down. The bone saddle changed the tone to "brittle". I put the original graph tech back in within a week. The rest of the story though is that a few months later I tried Santa Cruz Parabolic Mid-Tensions on that same guitar and found that tone I thought the bone saddle would achieve. All good, and you're right, bone is not necessarily the right move for all guitars.

[rdeane]

I changed out the stock saddle of my FSX830 to a bone saddle I got from Amazon, kept the plastic pins, and changed out the strings for Santa Cruz Parabolic Low Tension. The improvement in tone was quite noticeable. I have now switched out the strings to DR Rare Light, and the tone is still wonderful. I'm going to try GHS Silk and Bronze next.

[cary]

I find that the tone from a saddle change can be all over the place--what sounds good on one guitar doesn't necessarily sound good on another. Also, the difference in tone between various types of bone can be large indeed.

It's definitely not a one-size-fits-all kind of thing.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by sstaylor58

So I posted last week about a NGD for a Yamaha FSX800C. Changed out the strings to elixir PBÂ’s and put in a new McNichols bone saddle, which is my go to upgrade. Also tried to use Taylor ebony pins but they were too big so I stayed with the standard plastic pins. After these changes, gone was my beautiful, mellow sounding yammie, hello to a big, brash almost metallic sound. Thought it might be the elixirs because I know they take a bit to settle in/warm up. Waited a few days, played it a lot, and couldnÂ’t stand the sound. Tonight I changed out the bone and re-installed the stock plastic saddle and bingo! The sound I fell in love with at the dealers was back! I always assumed bone was an upgrade, guess itÂ’s not for all guitars. Lesson learned.

Well it is not quite as simple as being a "stock plastic" saddle. It is made from urea formaldehyde, which is a plastic that's been in production for 100 years or so. It would not surprise me if Yamaha have a factory somewhere producing other items from urea plastic and have simply added guitar nuts and saddles to the moulding line which would give them full control over design and quality. It is the same sort of plastic that old light fittings were moulded from. There is absolutely nothing wrong at all in using it for nuts and saddles. And it sounds like, from your experience on your guitar, it is transferring less of the high end frequencies (the presence) from the strings to the bridge than the bone saddle you tried.

All saddle materials are going to behave a little differently. Imagine what your guitar would sound like with a steel saddle at one extreme or a maple saddle at the other. Swapping out saddles is a cheap way to have a big impact on the "eq" setting for your guitar.

[Jim Comeaux]

I replaced the ill fitting plastic saddle in my FG 830 with a bone saddle from Custon Guitar Saddles by Bob Colosi in St. Mary’s, Georgia. It was a significant improvement. I also replaced the bridge pins, but I didn’t hear any difference there. Well, they look better, but they sound the same.

[rllink]

Whether sound is improved or not is pretty much a subjective thing. I don't know how one measures it. I myself just leave things as they are, but I have a friend who is just the opposite, he can't leave anything alone. He starts changing things out almost before he plays something new. Whatever makes someone happy.

This is an interesting thread as I recently bought the same guitar and it comes with D' Addario strings on it. I have a set of Earnie Ball Silkwood and Steel soft strings. A friend gave them to me as a gift at Christmas. The same friend who can't leave anything alone. I will probably put those on mine when the time comes to change them. I mean, I have them. I'm going to record it before and after to see if there really is a difference.

[Goodallboy]

There are few, if any, absolutes with wooden guitars.

[Cheezeweggie]

My FG800 sounded great with the stock saddle. A tad brighter with bone. Like it a lot either way. Installed rosewood bridge pins. Not much change either, but nice looking. Amazing bass response for a cheap guitar. Must be the scalloped bracing.

[Dru Edwards]

Bone density can vary. I wonder if you tried another bone saddle if it would be an improvement? That aside, your Yamaha may just prefer the stock saddle - nothing wrong with that. At least you gave it a shot.

Any chance the bottom of the bone saddle wasn't perfectly sanded or didn't fit as well as the stock saddle?