Short scale vs long scale playability?

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by Kh1967

I am in a similar boat. I have found short scale to help a good bit, along with a slightly wider neck. For me, that means 1 3/4” and the right neck carve.

I do have a full scale guitar and it is a very easy playing guitar, but I do reach for short scale more often.

Good luck!

+1.

Lowrider, sorry to hear about your issue. I think a short scale, lighter strings may help but you also need to determine what nut width and neck carve work for you as well.

Last night I was playing 'Every Breath You Take' on my Martin. That is a big reach and it hurt my wrist. It doesn't bother me when playing on my Les Paul/SG though ... the shorter scale length made a difference ... thinner neck too which may contribute.

[D-Guitar]

Lowrider, As you see there are a lot of us that can relate to your challenges. I have found that a short scale ~ 24.9 or so is a lot easier for me to play, also I have found that a more full neck with about 1-3/4 nut width is better for me. I bought my main guitar, a J45 Studio because of these features but it does lack my preferred mahogany tone. This forum has helped with advice about string choices, tuning down 1/2 step and using the capo at the 1st fret etc. Most helpful so far is realizing finally that a straight edge on the neck for me did not tell the story of the relief like a capo on the 1st and holding down the last fret and observing the relief at the highest (6-7fret) point. I've finally gotten this guitar (which was set up professionally) playing the way I like. I have also read that eastman has some 000's with the neck and nut width and woods that I would like to try. I also, like you, depend on nsaids but at my age I am very cautious about the frequency of dosing even though it's prescribed by my MD, I guess that's due to my pharmacy background. Good Luck to you, regards...

[TBman]

Originally Posted by lowrider

My hands have taken a turn for the worst this winter and I've been taking ibuprophen almost every morning. I still practice about an hour and a half in the morning and again before dinner.

I started playing four years ago to strengthen my left hand after dupetrens contracture surgery and one of the reasons that I retired in 2011 was the problems I was having with my hands.

I was good for a long time but this winter things have gotten bad again. My hands feel weak and stiff. I know I have arthritis but I don't want to go to the hand specialist until my wife and I are vaccinated.

I'm thinking that maybe I should switch to short scale. I've never noticed a difference playing but it has to be there. I'm thinking of selling my 5 long scale Martins and getting a 000-28 and a Gibson J-45. I do like the tone I'm getting but if I get rid of all of them and get the two short scales, I'll just used to the new sound.

What do you think, will it help?

I think you should drop down the string gauge on your guitars and play with a capo on 1 or 2 for a while and see what happens.

[brencat]

I’m sorry to hear about your hands. There was a time years ago when I had a J-45, 000-18 Authentic, and a Santa Cruz OM/PW short scale in the house at the same time. The Santa Cruz was the easiest of those to play, but Santa Cruzes in general are known to be very forgiving guitars.

None of them stuck around because their tone wasn’t appropriate for bluegrass, and I’m playing fiddle tunes 95% of the time now. All my current guitars are full scale, and are as easy if not easier to play than anything I’ve owned previously.

Long winded way of saying I don’t think you need to go to short scale to make it easier to play. You just have to find the right (forgiving) long scale guitars!

[lowrider]

Thank you all for the advice and encouragement. I'm not going to run and make the switch right away. The first thing I'm going to do is to put a set of DR Sunbeams, that I have, on my J-17, and I'll focus on playing that one for a while. I also have a set of D'Ad 11's that I can put on another one. Then I'll see how my hands feel in a few weeks.

I've never noticed a difference in feel when I've played short scale guitars in the store but I think that over the long haul, it might make a difference

And it's a tough time to buy a new guitar. Music Zoo, which for me is the best place to go, really doesn't have much to tempt me. They don't have a j-45 standard and in Martin they have an 000 Road and then it's up to custom shop, and besides, their showroom is closed with no reopening date.

My CS OM-18 just rocks but I've never tried a 000-18 that I wanted to take home. I'm willing to look at 000-28's, if I can find one. J-45's; I wanted one when I first started playing but gave up on finding one that I liked. Last year, I did play a great sounding one at MZ, so I know that they are out there. And someone mentioned Taylor SS. Again MZ is the place for me to look and they are closed.

I can see this happening in the long run. Maybe I'll end up with one Martin, one Gibson and one Taylor. Maybe no Martin but a couple of nice guitars that play easily. Who knows but I hope I can keep these hands going, we'll see!

[hifivic]

Lol, my long scale Collings OM is easier to play than my short scale SCGC and both have 1 3/4" nuts!

[Kyle215]

For what it’s worth, I’ve found that V shapes neck is much easier on my hands than the Martin MLO neck. The V gives me something substantial to brace my thumb on and allows better leverage on the frets. I find my hand cramping up much easier on that MLO neck on my 000-18, and I can play the soft V on my H&D all day.

[gmel555]

Yes, I find shorter scale to be more comfortable as I've gotten older with a touch of arthritis in my hands. In general I've migrated to: shorter scales, smaller bodies, 12/13 frets to body, light strings (12's). I haven't needed to let go of my 14 fret full scales, but find I get just as much if not more use from the smaller models (000/00) now. I do find that it takes a little extra effort to find smaller body guitars that have the tone I like/love, but smaller bodies can have there own tonal signatures which are quite enjoyable.

[rllink]

I have a short scale, 23.5" Taylor and a bit longer scale, 25" Yamaha. I don't notice a difference going back and forth, although I seem to play the Yamaha a lot more. I don't have arthritis or anything physically that hinders me from playing, so no comparison. If it were me I wouldn't go selling out all my longer scale guitars until I was sure that a shorter scale is better.

[rule18]

Yes, short scale = less tension = "easier" to play. That inch or so makes a world of difference. Someone posted previously about a half step de-tune and capo which will ease your discomfort a bit as well. I can tell you from experience that my J-45 is extremely comfortable to play. Short scale, and I'm at a little less than 3/32 at the 12th.

[RussellHawaii]

I’ve also been experimenting with things that help the hands play without pain, especially as we ‘mature.’ The shorter scale helps but changes the feel quite a bit for me. Great for fingerpicking or lighter playing, but for harder picking (banging, some would call it) the longer scale seems better. For me the main issue with a short scale is keeping the lighter-tensioned strings in tune as I play harder.
I find as I tried 11s instead of 12s, there is very little loss in sound and it’s much easier on the hands. Evens 10s are useable, to my surprise. Not sure if I’d choose these for recording but for regular playing it’s a good trade off.
On another thread here a wise person mentioned ‘Flexible core’ strings by Martin. I just tried them and these also make playing noticeably easier, (and Tommy Emmanuel endorses them.) They are noticeably easy to fret. I can’t comment on their durability yet.
I also tune one or two long scale guitars to D Standard, one step down. Nice warm sound and makes singing certain songs easier! As mentioned a capo gets you back to normal pitch if desired.
I recently read an article on the subject of playing with pain in Acoustic Guitar mag. David Crosby mentioned CBD for the hands. I’m one week into a trial with this, rubbing it externally, and so far, I see quite a good improvement.
I’ll continue to watch for other suggestions along this line! I want to play for many more years!

[Deliberate1]

I typically don't make suggestions here because I have only been playing two years and tend to be more a consumer of wisdom on this board, rather than a dispenser of it. But I can legitimately make an exception here.
Like you, arthritis is setting into may hands. But I face the double whammy of having neophyte hands as well. And so whatever makes playing/learning easier is very important to me.
In the two years I have been playing, I have bought four guitars from Larrivee, Froggy Bottom, Bourgeois and Huss And Dalton. All are 000 and 12 fret, except the Bourgeois which is a dread long scale (25.4"). It is also, unquestionably the hardest (stiffest) for me to play. On the other end of the playability spectrum is the Huss and Dalton 000 12 fret. It is a short scale (24.9"). When I bought it, I posted a request for string suggestions. A kind member strongly suggested Thomastik extra lights (10-41). So I tried them. They are brilliant on this guitar. It takes a fraction of the pressure to sound the strings, yet there is full projection and no thinness to the sound. My teacher was quite impressed with the volume. Indeed, it sounds almost classical to me. I can play for as long as I want with no pain. With the Bourgeois, I do not have that luxury. Interesting, but I tried the strings on the Froggy Bottom 000 12 fret short, and they did not work at all. I bought the H&D from Guitar Center on a lark, knowing that it could be returned if it did not work out. It surely did and is the one that I play most of the time, and take my lessons on. They are pricey new, but for some reason not clear to me, suffer a huge hit on the used market. I paid in the range of 40% for what was essentially a new guitar. So that is my strong buy recommendation: H&D 000 12 fret short scale. It is a splendid guitar, and one, with the Thomastik strings, that could not be easier to play, with virtually no sacrifice in sound quality.
As for the hands, I have been taking a curcumin (tumeric) supplement for several months with excellent results. It is a powerful anti-inflammatory highly recommended by the medical community as an alternative to NSAIDS, which are contra-indicated for chronic use. Here is an article from the NIH that is a tough read, but unmistakable in its support for its use. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5664031/
As you do your due diligence, you will see that the key to this supplement is finding one with high bio-availability. Simply put, it is not easily absorbed. But there are compounds that increase its absorption (like pepperine). That is what you will want to look for. If it works for you, you may be able to reduce your NSAIDs, which is a very good thing.
Hope this helps.
David

[Mycroft]

Most of my guitars are 24.75" to 25," and I certainly notice the difference in tension and reach between them. As noted, don't overlook nut width, as vertical and horizontal reach effect one another. Neck thickness is also important to my 63 year old hands. Too thin a neck hurts them after a while.

The suggestion of tuning down a half or whole step and capoing is a good one. First is that it will give real world feedback of in the shorter scale might help. Second is it buys time to see if the condition is passing or not.

Something else to try is changing your playing position. If you normally play seated with the guitar on your right leg (presuming you are a righty) you might try resting it on your left leg, classical style, which positions your wrist and hand straighter. Don't overlook putting something under one foot; your case will work. This might not work as well if all you have are Dreadnaughts, due to their fat waist. But still...
The tune and capo trick also might help to see if a 12-fret guitar might be beneficial, as it pulls your fretting arm in closer to the body, and again, so straighter.

All the best.

[Zigeuner]

In the Martin series, the short scale seems to me to be a bit easier to play. I have both scales in my stable (00-21, D-12-35 @24.9") and then the long-scale @25.4" D Models.

As a comparison, the vintage Gibson Byrdland was built with a 23-1/2" scale and it's among the easiest guitars to play, acoustic or electric. Too bad that the prices have gotten out of control on those or I'd buy one. I did get to play one once and I've lusted after one since then, but finances won't permit.

[sayheyjeff]

I am also in this group with hand issues and aging. Have found that I find it easier on the fingers to play short scale, and am generally more comfortable playing 12 fretters than 14. Havent tried a 13 fret guitar but have thought about it. Still have 2 long scale guitars and I play them. I would trade them for similar short scale 12 fretters if the opportunity came along. Just don’t quite play them as well as the others most days. I prefer medium strings, but use the Santa Cruz medium tension strings on all of my guitars except the PJ which has to have low tension strings. I am of the impression that the SC medium tension strings are of a lower tension than medium gauge strings and that may make them easier to play. They last a long time for me too so I don’t fight the extra $$$. The Santa Cruz PJ is a guitar that doesn’t work for players who have a strong preference for large guitars, but it is a great little guitar, fun to play, and it ha a scale length of 24. Some days, it’s the only guitar for me with its scale length. The other point I others have mentioned that I will pile on is position. I have found that holing the guitar a little more vertically reduces the stretch and makes it all easier on my fretting hand. Lots to consider. Best of luck. (I also take the curcumin supplements).

Jeff