Acoustic Treatment demo

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by b1j

Why isn’t Roxul Safe and Sound available in 4’x2’x4”? There are so many DIY YouTube videos showing how people made panels out of this material, and now it’s … gone. Are we still in the middle of Supply Hell? Is it made in China?

Don't know, but the "Safe and Sound" line isn't the only line excellent for this purpose. Roxul Rockboard 60 has been used in studios all over and looks to be readily available.

48"x24"x4" Case of 3

48"x24"x2" Case of 6

48"x24"x2" Case of 4

48"x24"x2" Case of 4

[b1j]

Rockboard 60: that’s out of the blue. Last year I watched every YouTube video ever made about homemade panels; never heard of Rockboard 60. And it’s $22 a sheet? Three times per sheet what Safe and Sound was going for in a package of eight.

Thanks for the lead. I’ll look into it.

[b1j]

Nope. Sorry. Not available except through Acoustimac at $22 a piece. Unavailable everywhere else. That’s odd, no?

Then you go to search for the exact description and everything but that comes up: Safe and Sound (yeah, right), 2” thick, Amazon (doesn’t actually have it), Rockwool itself (whatever that company is; they are as elliptical about their “product line” as possible).

Just seems fishy. One company has a monopoly on someone else’s product?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by b1j

Rockboard 60: that’s out of the blue. Last year I watched every YouTube video ever made about homemade panels; never heard of Rockwell 60.

Bobby Owinski talks about it at about 41:20

[b1j]

I don’t know who Bobby Owsinski is, but he gives no help about how to buy this miracle material. Then he quotes a price of $35 for a six pack. Fantasy.

Maybe I’m the only one who can’t find the stuff. Thank you for trying to help, but I’m just not there yet.

[alohachris]

Aloha b1j,

Check out boxes (12 panels ea.) of Owens Corning OC703 rigid Fiberglass. Get the 2"x2'x4' size & double up to 4" thickness using Loctite 200 or 300 spray glue. OC 703 panels are what ALL pro studio's use for room treatment. I live in Hawaii & easily ordered it through an acoustic materials supplier. Readily available. Works the best for controlling early reflections in recording spaces & maximizing gear. Everything else to make absorbers is found cheaply at Walmart.

Your instinct to surround your tracking area with portable DIY 4"x2'x4' broadband absorbers is a good one. It works VERY WELL & they can be stored out of the way when not in use - in any space.

Start by making two free-standing or linked panels for a V-shape in front of the mic's (like Fran does - see video). Then add two behind you, two on each side, & one or two above (hung on a mic stand or mounted) if necessary.

Then more when needed. Fifteen years ago, I made 9 absorbers to begin with & added another 12 as basstraps in the corners & specialized treatment around & above my listening area & monitors. Hint: You don't have to make them all at once. Add on as needed. See? Use a wooden floor or a hinged 1/4 plywood (also portable) sheet for the floor surface - no tile or carpeting.

You can apply this treatment approach in ANY space. As a lifelong renter, I have completely tamed several terrible sonic & weirdly-shaped spaces using DIY broadband absorbers & this approach & achieved consistent acoustic home recordings (guitar, voice & other acoustic instruments).

This is the more valuable 'how-to' video from Fran:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

RE: Mic Preamps As you move up the mic trough towards better gear, make sure that everything in your signal chain is of equal value. Period! I know that's hard for a hobbyist to fathom, but it's very important in battling a loss of headroom & enhancing the quality & consistency of your home recordings.

When you buy new mic's, you should (must) always think about which mic preamp's you'll be pairing them with.

Do not buy beginner quality interfaces. The mic preamps on those units (like the Scarlett series or ones you mentioned in another thread) will make your recordings sound compressed, unbalanced & less open. Avoid them.

Stay with the brands that created the interface technology: Apogee & RME. Pristine mic pre's! - even on the cheaper USB models. UA's are decent too. And begin to look at professional, two-channel, stand-alone mic pre's for the future (source Sweetwater, & Soundpure to begin the lesson). Again, the key to maximizing any mic or gear in a signal chain is to use it in a fully-treated space & to match it to the right mic preamps/interface. Good. time/money saving advice for any hobbyist.

DIY or store-bought Room Treatment should be your first & most important investment for achieving consistent, clear home recordings early in the home recording game.

Finally, check out the hundreds of in-depth treatment discussions we've had for many years in AGF archives under "Search." Great insight. Of course, check out all the resources above provided by jim 1960. Everything you need is there. Just change the thinking that as a hobbyist, you can get around investing in room treatment for your small space - despite the "small, untreated spare bedroom recordings."

Best of luck to you, b1j. Enjoy everything about this great shared passion of ours! Even the inevitable growing pain$. And....plan your signal chains - before you buy & after treatment! 'Piecemeal' will cost you more time & money in the longrun. Put the savings into great mic's, preamps & monitors, better guitars & singing lessons. Ha! You deserve it!

alohachris

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by b1j

I don’t know who Bobby Owsinski is, but he gives no help about how to buy this miracle material. Then he quotes a price of $35 for a six pack. Fantasy.

The video is over six years old. Prices change.

As for who Bobby Owsinski is, he has an impressive list of credits as a mixing engineer and producer. He's also an expert in room acoustics.
Among the many books he's written, is "The Studio Builder's Handbook: How to Improve the Sound of Your Studio on Any Budget." I'm not recommending you buy the book since it's now 11 years old but Owsinski's opinion is not one to dismiss just because the name is unknown to you.

[MikeBmusic]

If you can't find rockwool locally, try https://www.atsacoustics.com/

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Check out boxes (12 panels ea.) of Owens Corning OC703 rigid Fiberglass. Get the 2"x2'x4' size & double up to 4" thickness using Loctite 200 or 300 spray glue. OC 703 panels are what ALL pro studio's use for room treatment.

Hey Chris,

OC703 is certainly an option but it's one that requires care when making panels. OC703 is compressed fiberglass and can irritate the skin. It's also dangerous to breathe in the particles, so one should always wear a mask when handling it. It's true that it can be found in many studios but it's used less today because there are better products that cover even lower frequencies. Roxul Rockboard 60 is one of those and it can be handled freely unlike the OC703.

If I were doing a pro installation where the panels were built into the walls, I'd be fine with OC703 because walls are always stationary (but I'd still prefer the Roxul Rockboard 60 because it covers a bit lower frequency range). So long as no one continuously is knocking into the walls, that stuff isn't going to shed into the room. For anything moveable or hanging on a wall, I'd be less inclined. I don't want even a little bit of fiberglass shedding into the room. It's just not worth the trouble it can cause for both people and pets. I'd be firmly in the "Why take the chance if you don't have to take the chance?" camp.

A decade or so back, OC703 was the best option. It's still an option but it's no longer the best option.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by b1j

Rockboard 60: that’s out of the blue. Last year I watched every YouTube video ever made about homemade panels; never heard of Rockwell 60. And it’s $22 a sheet? Three times per sheet what Safe and Sound was going for in a package of eight.

Thanks for the lead. I’ll look into it.

Safe 'n' Sound is available at my local Lowes today. Yes, it's only 18" wide, not 24", so I made a few more 18" panels using it. You could also just cut pieces to create 24" panels. I doubled up the thickness (total of about 6") and ended up putting those 18" panels across the corners of my room. $60 for a bag of 12 batts.

The Rockwool 60 (now known as Conrock 60, apparently) is a commercial product (as is OC703). You won't find it at the local retail stores. You need to find a commercial supply house that will sell to the public. It will be more expensive, you'll probably have to buy some minimum quantity, but will absorb sound a bit better for a given thickness than the Safe 'n' Sound which isn't as dense.

There is nothing mysterious or "eliptical" about Rockwool. They list all their products and applications right on their site. But you do need to go through a supplier, whether a local contractor supply or acoustic retailer like ATS/GIK; you can't just order it on Amazon.

[b1j]

OK, folks, thank you for talking me down from the ledge. I got a bit histrionic there!

My Lowes used to carry Safe and Sound, but no more. It looks like the best course might be to walk into Mordor to try to find Rockboard 60, no matter the challenges. I haven’t even mentioned the laughable shipping costs quoted. Maybe I’ll make a phone call to Rockwool.

It would be nice if the AGF had some channel for buying this material and selling batts to members. Small business opportunity for some enterprising member?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by b1j

OK, folks, thank you for talking me down from the ledge. I got a bit histrionic there!

My Lowes used to carry Safe and Sound, but no more. It looks like the best course might be to walk into Mordor to try to find Rockboard 60, no matter the challenges. I haven’t even mentioned the laughable shipping costs quoted. Maybe I’ll make a phone call to Rockwool.

It would be nice if the AGF had some channel for buying this material and selling batts to members. Small business opportunity for some enterprising member?

You checked ATS? https://www.atsacoustics.com/item--Roxul-AFB--1281.html. That's the small business opportunity in action.

I have no idea what shipping costs, and this stuff is going to be a big package, so it's probably a lot like shipping a guitar where the size of the package is the determining factor instead of weight.

I think I got the acoustic cotton from them, I don't recall shipping being a big factor, but that was a long time ago:

https://www.atsacoustics.com/recycle...le-pieces.html

(The cotton is *much* nicer to work with)

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Doug

We get quite a few "will room treatment make a difference?" questions.

I know I've posted these decade or more old recordings before, but I packaged up this demo of my "before/after" sound of my home studio as a video so I could embed it in a blog on my website.

Hey Doug - I could hear dramatic changes when I listened to it in my air-pods.

Thanks for posting it again…

[b1j]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha b1j,

Check out boxes (12 panels ea.) of Owens Corning OC703 rigid Fiberglass. Get the 2"x2'x4' size & double up to 4" thickness using Loctite 200 or 300 spray glue. OC 703 panels are what ALL pro studio's use for room treatment.

Use a wooden floor or a hinged 1/4 plywood (also portable) sheet for the floor surface - no tile or carpeting.

RE: Mic Preamps As you move up the mic trough towards better gear, make sure that everything in your signal chain is of equal value. Period! I know that's hard for a hobbyist to fathom, but it's very important in battling a loss of headroom & enhancing the quality & consistency of your home recordings.

When you buy new mic's, you should (must) always think about which mic preamp's you'll be pairing them with.

Do not buy beginner quality interfaces. The mic preamps on those units (like the Scarlett series or ones you mentioned in another thread) will make your recordings sound compressed, unbalanced & less open. Avoid them.

Stay with the brands that created the interface technology: Apogee & RME. Pristine mic pre's! - even on the cheaper USB models. UA's are decent too. And begin to look at professional, two-channel, stand-alone mic pre's for the future (source Sweetwater, & Soundpure to begin the lesson). Again, the key to maximizing any mic or gear in a signal chain is to use it in a fully-treated space & to match it to the right mic preamps/interface. Good. time/money saving advice for any hobbyist.

DIY or store-bought Room Treatment should be your first & most important investment for achieving consistent, clear home recordings early in the home recording game.

Best of luck to you, b1j. Enjoy everything about this great shared passion of ours! Even the inevitable growing pain$. And....plan your signal chains - before you buy & after treatment! 'Piecemeal' will cost you more time & money in the longrun. Put the savings into great mic's, preamps & monitors, better guitars & singing lessons. Ha! You deserve it!

alohachris

Chris, thank you for your generous comments, excerpted above.

Interface preamps: I just read through some preamp primers on the Neumann site. This confirmed for me that I’ll be just fine with the preamps in my entry-level AudioBox USB 96. No dynamic mics, no excessive-SPL sources. On the other end, I’ll never need 60 dB input gain. Maybe Neumann is being modest or trying not to baldly hype their gear, but a close reading of their guide revealed no downside for the AudioBox for my purposes.

On the fiberglass, I’ve read about the widespread use in studios, but I don’t want to shed fibers while building the panels. I’m sold on the superiority of rock wool. I’ll keep trying to get some in my house!

Overall, I feel you. I appreciate your taking the time to support me. Mahalo.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by b1j

Why isn’t Roxul Safe and Sound available in 4’x2’x4”? There are so many DIY YouTube videos showing how people made panels out of this material, and now it’s … gone. Are we still in the middle of Supply Hell? Is it made in China?

Actually as far as I know Safe and Sound 2' X 4' X 3" is still available in a construction package of 8 pieces for $ 85. My guess is because it is considered a home construction material it is available as such thru lumber yards and Hardware stores ( I got it from my local "Do it Best " hardware/lumber yard with no shipping fees had to wait about a week for them to order it from their distribution hub) . It comes basically cut to fit inside the stud wall cavities. So this Lowes (link below) is about as close as you are going to get,
With actual dimensions of 23" wide by 47" tall by 3" deep. Which works fine for 2'X 4' wood frames, or if you just do the S&S covered with material it also works fine

My guess is the Acoustic Treatment web stores simply get construction bundles and break them up and then mark them up ???

The good news is you can make 8 panels at the 3 in depth or double up to 6 inches and make 4
https://www.lowes.com/pd/ROCKWOOL-SA...7-in-L/4382951