Acoustic Treatment demo

[Doug Young]

We get quite a few "will room treatment make a difference?" questions.

I know I've posted these decade or more old recordings before, but I packaged up this demo of my "before/after" sound of my home studio as a video so I could embed it in a blog on my website. Basically, I recorded my space (garage) before I started, again most of the way done, and then finally a more close mic'd example once I had all treatment installed. I suspect most people won't experience this dramatic a transformation - I started from a pretty bad space! But this is at least one data point for anyone wondering why it matters.

[b1j]

Oh, to have the space to do this in! This must be very satisfying for you, Doug. Nice job. With treatment and close mics, you’re set.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by b1j

Oh, to have the space to do this in! This must be very satisfying for you, Doug. Nice job. With treatment and close mics, you’re set.

One of the benefits of being in CA, I suppose - no one actually uses their garages for cars, so once my son's punk band vacated it many years ago, my wife nicely suggested it become my studio. It's been nice to have, for sure, and I've done a lot of recording in here, myself and random others now and then.

[b1j]

My guitar houses my wood shop, which would not really play nicely with a recording studio.

Maybe there’s hope for my office, where I also do my MIDI and mixing, but it seems like a daunting task to treat the space (12x13’, 8’ ceiling).

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by b1j

My guitar houses my wood shop, which would not really play nicely with a recording studio.

Maybe there’s hope for my office, where I also do my MIDI and mixing, but it seems like a daunting task to treat the space (12x13’, 8’ ceiling).

I actually think your office room could be fine. If I'm recording audio-only, I do it in the studio space, but most of my videos are recorded in a 12x11 spare bedroom that's mostly untreated, and has a bunch of guitars on the wall to further liven things up. Here's I think my most recent example:



I'm thinking of putting together a demo of recording in "normal" spaces around the house at some point, to try to show what works and what doesn't, as a sort of companion demo to this example. It's all going to "depend", everyone's space is different.

But you can record solo guitar in a small room. A lot of what you read about needing a big space is assuming louder instruments, like drums, or things that have a lot of bass, like a bass... More commercial solo guitar CDs than you might think have been recorded in spare bedrooms! A few panels can help, a gobo approach can help, but even without them, it is possible. My example is a worst-case scenario, an empty concrete-floored garage with hard walls. A typical furnished room won't be pro studio quality, but it can work quite well for close-mic'd solo guitar.

I'd venture to say that it's actually more important to have good acoustics in the space where you're mixing - that's where you're making judgements about the sound, including whether the recording has too much room sound in it. So for example, when I'm mixing/editing a video that was shot in the spare bedroom, I'm at least mixing/editing in my studio.

[SpruceTop]

Doug, I always enjoy your wonderful playing, and Thanks For All You Do For AGF!

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I actually think your office room could be fine. If I'm recording audio-only, I do it in the studio space, but most of my videos are recorded in a 12x11 spare bedroom that's mostly untreated, and has a bunch of guitars on the wall to further liven things up. Here's I think my most recent example:



I'm thinking of putting together a demo of recording in "normal" spaces around the house at some point, to try to show what works and what doesn't, as a sort of companion demo to this example. It's all going to "depend", everyone's space is different.

But you can record solo guitar in a small room. A lot of what you read about needing a big space is assuming louder instruments, like drums, or things that have a lot of bass, like a bass... More commercial solo guitar CDs than you might think have been recorded in spare bedrooms! A few panels can help, a gobo approach can help, but even without them, it is possible. My example is a worst-case scenario, an empty concrete-floored garage with hard walls. A typical furnished room won't be pro studio quality, but it can work quite well for close-mic'd solo guitar.

I'd venture to say that it's actually more important to have good acoustics in the space where you're mixing - that's where you're making judgements about the sound, including whether the recording has too much room sound in it. So for example, when I'm mixing/editing a video that was shot in the spare bedroom, I'm at least mixing/editing in my studio.

Nice. Are you saying you recorded If I Needed Someone in a spare bedroom? That gives me hope.

Last year I toyed with the notion of making four 6' x 2' gobos, 4" thick, with Rockwool and wood frames. At the time, the materials were going to cost me $60 to $70 per panel. I envisioned setting them up around me while I record, maybe hinging two together like a standing screen.

At the time, you couldn't find 24-inch Rockwool in stock. It looks like that is still the case today. Looking for the product on the Rockwell site? Just forget it; you can't get there from here. Lowe's had it, but I needed to buy a minimum of three packages. That would be enough for 12 panels. So I put it aside.

Still, you're saying that my spare bedroom could possibly be treated sufficiently to record solo acoustic. I think that would take more than gobo panels; the corners would need work. It strikes me as a project that I don't know how to do properly, so it's hard to get started.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by b1j

Nice. Are you saying you recorded If I Needed Someone in a spare bedroom? That gives me hope.

Correct. Nearly all my videos were done in the spare bedroom. There are more on my channel

Last year I toyed with the notion of making four 6' x 2' gobos, 4" thick, with Rockwool and wood frames. At the time, the materials were going to cost me $60 to $70 per panel. I envisioned setting them up around me while I record, maybe hinging two together like a standing screen.

That is definitely an option. Check Fran Guidry's demo, using just 2 panels: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

At the time, you couldn't find 24-inch Rockwool in stock. It looks like that is still the case today. Looking for the product on the Rockwell site? Just forget it; you can't get there from here. Lowe's had it, but I needed to buy a minimum of three packages. That would be enough for 12 panels. So I put it aside.

You might check ATS or GIK, both of whom make nice-looking spouse-friendly panels and also sell and ship raw materials if you want to go DIY: https://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--DI...ials--102.html

Still, you're saying that my spare bedroom could possibly be treated sufficiently to record solo acoustic. I think that would take more than gobo panels; the corners would need work. It strikes me as a project that I don't know how to do properly, so it's hard to get started.

You never know until you try. But for solo acoustic guitar, with close micing, a typical furnished room often is adequate. Book cases and furniture act as diffusers, furniture, carpet, etc can act as absorption, and so on. It can often work. Try different spots in the room, different mic locations. Just don't start in a big empty concrete room, like a garage :-)

You might check this discussion from Al Petteway about how he recorded his "Collector's Choice" CD in a sunroom of someone else's house, using an ipad:



Also check out Eric Skye playing in his kitchen. There are tons of examples like this, of people getting good sounds in ordinary spaces. There are also lots of people who post recordings where the room sound hurts the recording. It all just depends on your room along with mic placement.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by b1j

Still, you're saying that my spare bedroom could possibly be treated sufficiently to record solo acoustic. I think that would take more than gobo panels; the corners would need work. It strikes me as a project that I don't know how to do properly, so it's hard to get started.

Small rooms are never going to be ideal but they can be made a lot less problematic. I just made this diagram that might be helpful.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Small rooms are never going to be ideal but they can be made a lot less problematic. I just made this diagram that might be helpful.

Very helpful, and about what I envision as a starting point. One trouble is that I have doors in both rear corners, so no diagonal panels allowed there.

Also, this takes several hundred dollars and holes in the walls and ceiling. But we suffer for our craft, no?

Thanks for posting this. It helps to see it all laid out.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

We get quite a few "will room treatment make a difference?" questions.

I know I've posted these decade or more old recordings before, but I packaged up this demo of my "before/after" sound of my home studio as a video so I could embed it in a blog on my website. Basically, I recorded my space (garage) before I started, again most of the way done, and then finally a more close mic'd example once I had all treatment installed. I suspect most people won't experience this dramatic a transformation - I started from a pretty bad space! But this is at least one data point for anyone wondering why it matters.

What a great demo Doug should be a sticky, so when someone asks about room treatment (for the 4,368 time) we can just post the video

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by b1j

Very helpful, and about what I envision as a starting point. One trouble is that I have doors in both rear corners, so no diagonal panels allowed there.

Many rooms will have similar issues and require some modification. If a door is in the way, you can mount the bass trap horizontally above the door or on the wall right next to the door. Not the best way in either case but it's better than no trap in the back corner area at all.

What I've read and heard from experts in this stuff over the years is that in small rooms it's all about bass traps and more bass traps. I was listening to someone giving a lecture on this stuff once (can't recall who just now) and he fielded a question about diffusion in a small room. His response was essentially, wherever you were going to hang the diffuser, put bass traps instead. Those will benefit a small room more than diffusion ...bass traps and more bass traps.

So if I was going all out in a small room, I'd cover the corners as best I could, cover my reflection points, get my cloud done, get my front wall done, get my back wall done, and then more bass traps wherever else I could fit them.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

That is definitely an option. Check Fran Guidry's demo, using just 2 panels: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

Doug, Fran's demo is also encouraging. It looks like a useful first step. Thanks.

[Glennwillow]

Hi Doug,

I really appreciate your comparison video between untreated and the same space treated for sound! It's really helpful!

- Glenn

[b1j]

Why isn’t Roxul Safe and Sound available in 4’x2’x4”? There are so many DIY YouTube videos showing how people made panels out of this material, and now it’s … gone. Are we still in the middle of Supply Hell? Is it made in China?