1/2 step down tuning

[FrankHS]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

...My pet peeve is when someone tunes down and they still call it a "G chord," even when it's now a Gb (or an F, if they're down a whole step)

It's typical in flamenco pedagogy to find the capoed keyes still referred to in terms of the open position forms, ie, "E chord", or even "key of E" regardless where capoed. Have to admit, that's how the guitarist will prolly be thinking. I have different quixotic peeves.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by FrankHS

It's typical in flamenco pedagogy to find the capoed keyes still referred to in terms of the open position forms, ie, "E chord", or even "key of E" regardless where capoed. Have to admit, that's how the guitarist will prolly be thinking. I have different quixotic peeves.

You're absolutely correct, that is a standard in flamenco-- and-- there's usually no other harmonic instrument aside from the guitar/guitars. They get a pass.

Heck, if you practice long enough to play flamenco well, I'll give you a pass on a lot!

[Allman_Fan]

I've never really understood the need for 1/2 or single step down-tuning or capoing up such a small amount. For 1/2 octave, yeah, I get that, but not for such a small increment.

Oh, I've done it . . . but I probably rolled my eyes.

[D. Dubya]

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

I've never really understood the need for 1/2 or single step down-tuning or capoing up such a small amount. For 1/2 octave, yeah, I get that, but not for such a small increment.

Oh, I've done it . . . but I probably rolled my eyes.

I think a half step up or down can make all the difference in the world. Some times, it means the difference between me being able to hit the highest notes in a song, and my voice cracking. Most of the time, it's just a matter of getting into my vocal sweet spot. So, I capo a lot, and my Taylor is currently tuned down 1/2 step. I've been working on a couple of tunes in G that had me overworking my voice a bit. Dropping to Gb, or F# if you prefer, really allows me to relax, open up and just sing in stead of worrying about the high notes. The end result is a night/day difference in the overall quality of the performance.

PS - I think the root of the problem is that I'm a Baritone and a lot of the music I like is sung by Tenors. Life's hard.

[Allman_Fan]

Originally Posted by D. Dubya

I think a half step up or down can make all the difference in the world.

I think you need to give yourself more wiggle room than that. If you are within a half step of the edge of your range, you need to drop the key by more than that amount. Even if you can "hit" the note, it will sound and look strained.

Don't "reach" the note; drill it!

[mchalebk]

I used to think it wasn’t worth using a capo on fret 1, that a half step didn’t make enough of a difference. However, I have since found that there are songs that even a half step can take a song that’s pushing the lower limits of my range and make it “doable”.

Tuning down is no different. There are songs that are pushing the upper limits of the range and even a half step can make a noticeable difference. It will not take a song that's out of your range and put it in your range, but it can certainly help with songs that are pushing the high end of your range.

I recently decided to try tuning down a full step on my 12-string. It's a carbon fiber guitar, so the tension wasn't a concern. However, there were some songs that were just a little too close to the upper limits of my range to make them questionable and I wanted to see how much difference it would make. So, I bought some medium gauge strings and tuned it down. Unfortunately, I didn’t like it down a full step; it just didn’t sound good to me. However, I really liked the sound when I tuned it up so that it was a half step low. And it really does make a difference on a handful of songs.

That being said, I’m not sure it’s worth it (for various reasons) and I’ll probably go back to standard pitch. Nevertheless, I can definitely state that even a half step made a noticeable difference on a handful of songs.

For what it’s worth, I’ve had quite a bit of vocal training and have a useable range of about two octaves, so it’s not a matter of trying to make do with a limited range. Regardless of what your range is, there will always be songs that are pushing your limits, either low or high. Using a capo for 1 or two frets or tuning down 1 or 2 half steps can indeed make a difference.

[eschnack]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

My pet peeve is when someone tunes down and they still call it a "G chord," even when it's now a Gb (or an F, if they're down a whole step)

Hehe, I can see where you're coming from, but i think of it more as a transposing instrument.

For example, once I was experimenting with tuning the guitar down a whole step when playing jazz. That way it became a Bb intrument...so a Bb Blues would become a C Blues, just like a horn player.

[Allman_Fan]

Originally Posted by mchalebk

Using a capo for 1 or two frets or tuning down 1 or 2 half steps can indeed make a difference.

OK, lets talk specifics.

1. What is the upper edge of your vocal range; what is the highest note you can sing?
2. What is the song that pushes those limits?
3. What is the note or notes in that song that push that limit?
4. Waht key is the song in?

[unimogbert]

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[Allman_Fan]

Somebody told him/her.

When someone tells you to tune your guitar a half step down.... How do you do it? I am new.

Lemme ask you this.
Why a half step and not a whole step?

[unimogbert]

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[Allman_Fan]

Originally Posted by unimogbert

Let me rephrase it then.
I wonder why someone told the OP to tune down a 1/2 step.

Allman - I'm not going to engage you on this.

I thought you already did!

Do you ever play with others?
If so, so they all tune down, too?

[mchalebk]

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

OK, lets talk specifics.

1. What is the upper edge of your vocal range; what is the highest note you can sing?
2. What is the song that pushes those limits?
3. What is the note or notes in that song that push that limit?
4. What key is the song in?

I don't see the point in getting into these specifics, because they only tell part of the story. There isn't an exact limit to one's range. It can depend on several factors, such as how long you hold the note, the vowel sound you're singing, how the high note is approached, how many times you have to hit it, how good your voice is feeling, etc. There are too many factors to quantify it in this manner.

I will state this as a fact. There are songs that, in certain keys, are pushing the upper limits of ones range. If you can sing a song, but you are pushing slightly to hit the high notes, or the high notes are a little harsh, lowering it even a half-step will help. It’s that simple. If you can’t hit the notes at all, a half-step won’t do the job. If you can, but it’s pushing it, a half-step will help.

In case you really care, I would consider my useable range to be G to G (two octaves). Can I always hit a high G cleanly? No. Can I sometimes hit a G#? Yes. For solo work, I would prefer to keep songs between (approximately) a C (on the low end) and an E or F (on the high end).

I will give an example: Give a Little Bit, by Supertramp. I can sing it in the original key (D), but it’s a little harsh sounding unless I’m really good and warm. The song spends a lot of time hitting a high F#, and goes up to the G once in a while (I think those are the notes; I’m not in position to verify at this point). I can sing it. I can hit all the notes cleanly and it doesn’t feel like I’m pushing. Nevertheless, my wife has informed me that it sounds like I’m pushing it a bit. With my 12-string tuned one half step down, it is much easier.

[Allman_Fan]

Originally Posted by mchalebk

Give a Little Bit, by Supertramp. I can sing it in the original key (D),

With my 12-string tuned one half step down, it is much easier.

Nevertheless, my wife has informed me that it sounds like I’m pushing it a bit. With my 12-string tuned one half step down, it is much easier.

Does she say the "pushing it" has been solved?

OK. Then I guess my question would be, "Have you tried it in C?"

Is this the only song you do in this tuning or do you do all of the 12 string stuff in this tuning? If you keep this guitar in that tuning, do you ever play with other people using that guitar? If so, how does that work?

Have you tried dropping the tuning to a whole step down . . . or even more?

[mchalebk]

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

Does she say the "pushing it" has been solved?

OK. Then I guess my question would be, "Have you tried it in C?"

Is this the only song you do in this tuning or do you do all of the 12 string stuff in this tuning? If you keep this guitar in that tuning, do you ever play with other people using that guitar? If so, how does that work?

Have you tried dropping the tuning to a whole step down . . . or even more?

I really don’t want to get hung up on details. In fact, I’m not really trying to justify tuning down a half-step. For me, I don’t think it’s worth it. My point is that a half-step can make a difference.

Have you ever changed what key you capo in, maybe move it a fret higher or a fret lower? One fret can indeed make a difference. That’s the point I’m making. To say a half-step isn’t enough to make a difference is simply not correct. That being said, for me I don’t think it’s worth it.

In the case of the example I gave, Give a Little Bit really does need to be played in D to do it correctly (trust me on this one). I really can’t see it working in any other key. (It uses lots of /D chords; only other choice would be A capo 3, perhaps, but I don’t think that would work.) And, yes, I did try it a full step down, but I didn't like the way the guitar sounded.

I’ll give you another example. (This one is about a half-step making a difference, not about tuning down.) The song is Yesterday, by the Beatles. I decided to learn the song a few years ago. The song was in F, but playing it in F didn’t sound right. So, I went to YouTube and found out that Paul plays it in G, but tuned down a full step. Well, I really don’t like to rely on tuning down, so I set about trying to find another key to play it in. I figured out that D worked nicely. So, play it in D, capo 3 and it’s in the same key Paul sang it in. However, while I could sing it in that key, I felt more comfortable down a half-step. So, now I do it capo 2 and it works nicely. I made a video of and it turned out pretty good, but even I can tell that another half-step up would really be pushing it. Here’s a link, in case anyone wants to check it out (please excuse the voice/guitar balance; it was my first video and I thought I could get by with a single mic):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obLKh...&tracker=False