Clever way to learn some note timing/rhythm patterns...

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by agfsteve

Bump for some help?

It is a flawed approach, not one I’d recommend.

The flaw is that it is ambiguous. Many of the words can, and often are, pronounced differently by different people. The approach works only if you already know the pronunciation that represents the rhythm to which it is supposed to be relevant and choose to use that pronunciation.

Here is a simple illustration. The corporate name Adidas, who makes shoes and other things, is pronounced with a different rhythm depending upon where you are. In North America, it is pronounced a-DEE-daws, with similar duration of each syllable. In other parts of the world it is pronounced AWdee-daws, with heavy emphasis on the first syllable. Same word, different number of syllables with different em-FA-sis.

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by davidbeinct

Cinnamon bun is one e and two, strawberry jam is one and a two.

Thanks! I knew it was going to be something like that, but I couldn't quite figure it out.

I think "charles Tauber" has a point about it being flawed, and I think my difficulties in understanding subtle differences underscores that.

It's best to stick to the beat numbers, the "and"s and the "a"s and "e"s, e.g. "one-e-and-a two-e-and-a", etc.

And to understand beaming in musical notation, which I realised I don't!

[3notes]

What ever happened to the ..... 2 all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce ......

Or how 'bout..... My Bologna has a first name, it's O.S.C.A.R. My bologna has a second name it's M.E.Y.E.R. ........

[HodgdonExtreme]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

It is a flawed approach, not one I’d recommend.

The flaw is that it is ambiguous. Many of the words can, and often are, pronounced differently by different people. The approach works only if you already know the pronunciation that represents the rhythm to which it is supposed to be relevant and choose to use that pronunciation.

Here is a simple illustration. The corporate name Adidas, who makes shoes and other things, is pronounced with a different rhythm depending upon where you are. In North America, it is pronounced a-DEE-daws, with similar duration of each syllable. In other parts of the world it is pronounced AWdee-daws, with heavy emphasis on the first syllable. Same word, different number of syllables with different em-FA-sis.

Good point!

FYI, The Adidas company is named for it's founder - Adolf ("Adi") Dassler

So the AWdee-Daws pronunciation is probably superior.

[mattbn73]

The approach isn't flawed. It's not meant to be used without a teacher or someone who can otherwise read those rhythms.

It's a teaching tool, not a way to figure out the sounds of rhythms in the first place on your own.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by mattbn73

The approach isn't flawed. It's not meant to be used without a teacher or someone who can otherwise read those rhythms.

It's a teaching tool, not a way to figure out the sounds of rhythms in the first place on your own.

Fair enough.

Recall, however, that the VAST majority of guitar players are self taught. Posting such a method for an audience in which many do not have teachers, and labelling it a “clever way to learn”, without even a caveat, seems misleading, as witnessed by some of the questions posted in this discussion.

[mattbn73]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Fair enough.



Recall, however, that the VAST majority of guitar players are self taught. Posting such a method for an audience in which many do not have teachers, and labelling it a “clever way to learn”, without even a caveat, seems misleading, as witnessed by some of the questions posted in this discussion.

Yeah. To be fair they are slightly different. While "One and a", "One E and" and "trip-a-let" can all be mispronounced in the same way as the food items, if you're just reading them off the Internet or something, the former IS at least a derivative reference which is probably easier to conceptualize without hearing someone actually do it. In the end, you really would almost always have to hear someone doing it to really learn these things though.

Anyway, if you understand what "One E and a" is and sounds like, you can work your own rhythms out mathematically using a derivative approach and omitting syllables:

"One - and a", "One E and -".

THAT aspect does actually make it slightly stronger, but I still think you need teacher for basic reference in the beginning probably.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by mattbn73

Yeah. To be fair they are slightly different. "One and a"..."One E and" and "trip-a-let" .... "One - and a", "One E and -".

I fully recognize that different people have different ways of learning.

However, it isn't that complicated: it is simple math with fractions. There are "X" beats to a bar. Each beat is most commonly subdivided into 1/2's, 1/4's, 1/8's, 1/16... or 1/3, 1/6 ... as well as the occasional rarer anomaly. From that, one can derive as many language/syllable-based schemes as one wants, but, in the end, it's all just fractions.

... I still think you need teacher for basic reference in the beginning probably.

I'm going to be blunt: unless one has pretty limited goals, in very many human pursuits, I think that most are foolish to not seek out qualified instruction to assist in learning that pursuit. Learning music is, in my opinion, no exception. Sure, there are some exceptional self-taught individuals, but they are the exceptions. Few of us, by definition, are exceptional, though each of us is unique.

"Always remember that you are unique, just like everyone else."

[Sonics]

...class is in session!