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  #1  
Old 07-11-2019, 06:00 PM
Hanzalot Hanzalot is offline
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Default Help needed to install end pin in new Guild m140

Hi

Just got this amazing little Guild m140. It comes with the factory end pin non-attached and when I press it in by hand (without using much force) it's still about 3mm from being flush with the guitar. Do I just give it a few gentle taps with a rubber hammer or does it look like the hole needs to be reamed? I of course want it to be tight so it doesn't fall out but don't want to push it if it looks like it will take too much force to get it in there...

Here is a photo that shows how much it is "sticking out" (and again this is without forcing it):

https://imgur.com/a/Qr0Y7lS

From what I can see the hole is reamed/shaped as it should be.

Thanks!
Hans
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  #2  
Old 07-11-2019, 06:36 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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The hole is too small for that pin. It should be reamed to fit the pin. Do not hit it with s hammer as you risk splitting the end block. A light press fit is sufficient. No amount of hammering that end pin will seat it: the hole is too small.
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  #3  
Old 07-12-2019, 05:37 AM
Hanzalot Hanzalot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
The hole is too small for that pin. It should be reamed to fit the pin. Do not hit it with s hammer as you risk splitting the end block. A light press fit is sufficient. No amount of hammering that end pin will seat it: the hole is too small.
Advice taken! Thanks Charles! Could you maybe point me in the direction of an adequate reaming tool? The stewmac one is super expensive but what about one of these from eBay:

1 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pc-Luthier...n/122566405721

2 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/End-Pin-Hol...e/202684370545

3 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acoustic-Gu...5/333204921460

4 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-1-2-Inc...t/401812128198

Or I can try to find a similar one at a local hardware store - I'm just not sure what it's called in Danish .

Thanks again
Hans
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:06 AM
redir redir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanzalot View Post
Advice taken! Thanks Charles! Could you maybe point me in the direction of an adequate reaming tool? The stewmac one is super expensive but what about one of these from eBay:



4 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-1-2-Inc...t/401812128198

Or I can try to find a similar one at a local hardware store - I'm just not sure what it's called in Danish .

Thanks again
Hans
That one would be your best bet. Go really slowly as you approach the final depth. The pin should stick out no more then 1mm, probably even less, then you push it in with a bit of force and you are good to go. IMHO there is nothing wrong with gluing them in either.
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:54 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Items 2 and 3 are not reamers: they are step-drills, intended to produce non-tapered holes.

Item 4 appears to be a sheet metal reamer. It will work, though the taper might not exactly match the taper of your end pin.

Item 1 is a wood reamer. It will work, though you'd need to ensure that it reams a hole large enough to accommodate the diameter of your end pin. The reamer's maximum diameter is 10 mm.

As you reach your final diameter with the reamer, as redir stated, take very little off and check the end pin fit frequently. As little as 1/8 of a turn of the reamer can be the difference between a correct fit and too loose.

I also glue tapered end pins in the hole. I use a reamer that matches the taper of the end pin. With a matching taper, a small dab of glue on one place on the circumference is enough to ensure the end pin won't come out on its own. If too much glue is used, you likely won't ever get the end pin out, short of destroying it - cutting the end off and drilling it out.


If you are only fitting the one end pin, and don't otherwise have use for a reamer, you can try cutting a small piece of 120 or 80 grit sandpaper and wrapping it around the end pin and using the end pin, itself, as a reamer, rotating the sandpaper-covered end pin in the hole. It might be a good idea to apply masking tape around the hole to ensure you don't inadvertently sand the finish. You are removing only a very small amount of wood.

Similarly, you could reduce, slightly, the diameter of the end pin shaft by rotating it against a piece of sandpaper. You risk, however, making the shaft non-circular.

Reaming, however, is the "proper" method.

Last edited by charles Tauber; 07-12-2019 at 10:04 AM.
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  #6  
Old 07-12-2019, 11:54 AM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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None of those is the right tool for the job. (1) is the right type of tool, but at 8mm diameter it is not big enough. (2) and (3) are step drills. (4) is a mechanics' sheet metal reamer that has too much taper, that many unscrupulous sellers call a guitar pin reamer because that sells them to the unsuspecting. That is what you will find at the hardware store.

Find a guitar repair shop with a good tech and pay them a few kronor to do it right.
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  #7  
Old 07-12-2019, 01:16 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Klepper View Post
Find a guitar repair shop with a good tech and pay them a few kronor to do it right.
Probably the best answer. It'll probably cost you about the same as buying the tool and doing it yourself. But, having a professional do it, you know it is done right.
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  #8  
Old 07-12-2019, 01:26 PM
redir redir is offline
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Except that I know for a fact the hardware store sheet metal reamer will work but I am assuming that Hans is building his first hobby guitar and doesn't want to spend $90 dollars on a quality luthiers reamer.

If you hold the reamer up to the light with the endpin and match along the shaft where the taper meets then mark it off with some tape and you know how deep to go.

For the first 40 or so guitar I made, I used the tail end of a rat tail file that I ground down to where it was close enough for endpins and always used a drop of glue.

Now I mostly use the ones you screw in.
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  #9  
Old 07-12-2019, 03:21 PM
Hanzalot Hanzalot is offline
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Thanks everyone for the excellent advice. I've started doing all these minor modifications myself and am just much happier doing so than going to a luthier, though obviously im some cases that is the way to do it. It just seems that I always encounter similar issues so if I learn to do it myself the first time then it usually pays off down the road.

I'm currently on vacation (with the guitar) so am tempted to try Charles' sandpaper method if the local hardware store doesn't have an adequate reaming tool.

Cheers
Hans
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  #10  
Old 07-12-2019, 07:50 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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I have sanded, filed, or scraped end pins to fit them.....even though I own an overpriced 5 degree reamer from Stew Mac. This is done when I don't want to enlarge the hole for various reasons. The trick is to mark the pin as you are test-fitting it, either with chalk or carbon paper. Then concentrate on the areas that are touching. Just wiggling the pin when it is inserted will tell you whether it is tight on the end or at the collar (wrong taper).
The cheap utility reamers (1/8" to 1/2") usually have too much taper.....more like 6 1/2 degrees when I measure them.
Martin style end pins are mostly 5 degree, while violin end pins and other styles of guitar end pins are less than that.

Going the opposite way also works......enlarging the pin by applying CA in several layers, then shaping/fitting it as described above. Depending on the color of the end pin, I have also sprinkled ebony dust, bone dust, or baking soda on the unhardened CA to act as a filler.
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  #11  
Old 07-13-2019, 06:27 PM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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Persoanlly, I might be inclined to try one or two other end-pins first, just to see if maybe that one's just too big or the wrong taper. After that, you can decide whether to shave down the pin itself or as a last resort, when you've eliminated the other possibilities, carefully ream the heel block with a tool meant for the job.

I'm just taking the perspective that, if you mess up sizing an end-pin, you can always try again with another one, but if you mess up on the guitar itself you're pretty much stuck with it.

Try wrapping the pin in sandpaper & spin it until it fits better.
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