Martin 000-16sgt; anyone have (or had) one?

[lowrider]

One of these has popped up on CL. It looks really interesting, but it's an over three-hour drive and I think the price is too high. I always think the price is too high, what else is new. But it's like something I've been thinking about; an 000-17sm with a spruce top. So I'm thinking about it, but it's a long drive just to try it.

So here's the thing, I already have a CS OM-18 that's a monster. Regular 000-18's sound kind of quaint in comparison. I think that12 fret 000's are suposed to have more bottom but I did try a Larrivee 12 fret 000 that was just underwhelming.

Does anyone have one of these, or have you had one of these? I think that my OM-18 compares well to a D-18. How would a 000-16sgt compare?

[Rogerblair]

I’ve owned two. I suggest take the drive. They’re very good guitars, especially if is an ebony bridge and fingerboard model with open back tuners (some had Waverlys).

Good luck
Rb

[Rexsblues]

I've been wanting one myself. M.C. Taylor from Hiss Golden Messenger uses one almost exclusively and it always sounds great. Go for it!

[Steve DeRosa]

Nice stuff, and - if you're lucky enough to find someone stupid/crazy/desperate enough to part with theirs - the rosewood -SRGT version pumps it up about fifteen notches: all the visual vibe and 95+% of the tone of the 000-28VS at about one-third the street price when they were both in the line, a cult favorite among fingerpickers/folkies on a budget, and arguably the finest guitar CFM IV & Co. ever discontinued in the name of the almighty dollar. You don't mention the price, but from what I've seen they're beginning to achieve wider recognition and prices are rising accordingly - if it were me I'd take the drive and try to cut a deal you could both live with...

[fongie]

Nice looking git. I had the 000-17SM, lovely git but I sold it recently. The rosewood version SRGT sounds great. I wouldn't mind trying that.

[Wade Hampton]

It’s definitely worth the drive to go try out. Since you didn’t mention the asking price I don’t know whether the seller is asking too much, but they’re fine guitars, and as Steve pointed out, they cost less new than a similar model that cost a lot more.

Speaking as someone with stage experience using both 12 fret and 14 fret Triple O’s onstage, these 12 fret models have a bass response more like a dreadnought than an OM or a 14 fret Triple O. That might be great in a living room or a purely acoustic performance, but once you run them through a PA, whether with a microphone or a pickup or both, they are more difficult to get a good stage sound with. OM’s and 14 fret Triple O’s are easier to mic.

But 12 fret Triple O’s are great guitars: I have one with koa back and sides and a spruce top.

I generally don’t use it onstage, however.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Silly Moustache]

Just to drop back into my "historic" role, the 12 fret 000 was the largest guitar in the Martin catalogue from 1902 until the original dread came out in 1931.

I don't know the specs of this model, although I remember a friend buying one and it seemed quite pleasant, so as long as it is made of good woods, and has an appropriate fretboard size - 1 & 13/16 to 1 & 7/8 nut, standard scale, and and designed to have a balanced scale (i.e. not bass biased) as was Martin's ethos until the 14 fret models.

I don't own a mahogany backed 000 so can't speak about the bass register, I'd suggest it would most likely be pretty neutral, as appropriate to the design.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I don't own a mahogany backed 000 so can't speak about the bass register, I'd suggest it would most likely be pretty neutral, as appropriate to the design.

Personally, I prefer mahogany or koa as the back and sides wood on 12 fret Triple O’s, just as I prefer those woods for dreadnoughts, and for the same reason: they don’t impart as much bass response as rosewood does. There tends to be greater clarity and better tonal balance with these larger body sizes when mahogany or koa are used.

Both dreadnoughts and 12 fret Triple O’s have large body cavities, and generate plenty of bass response just from the amount of air that they’re pushing around. So they don’t really need the extra bass response that using rosewood back and sides will provide.

Naturally, the tone that a player can pull out of a guitar has as much to do with his or her right hand attack as it does with the wood of the back and sides. And plenty of folks like having as much bass response as they can get. But for me, anyway, koa or mahogany back and sides are the best choices for this body configuration. Less feedback and less dicking around with trying to get the guitar EQ’ed than with rosewood.

Hope that makes some kind of sense...


Wade Hampton Miller

[Mike Sylvia]

Get in your car, and drive!

[lowrider]

Originally Posted by Mike Sylvia

Get in your car, and drive!

I just sent him an email with an offer, asking to see it on Saturday, we'll see what happens.

[lt20dbl]

In 2001, I bought a new 000-15S. It is a nice sounding guitar. I paid $650 for it. A bargain for a new solid wood guitar. Back then, they used mahogany. At the time, the 000-16 SGT was about $150 more. I probably would have been better off with that. I got my first rosewood 12 fret 000, two years ago. Sorry I waited so long. L

[drjond56]

I owned one in years past before downsizing to a 00 size with shorter scale. It was a great guitar! Mine was RW back and sides. It was great for fingerstyle and strumming. I would suggest it is worth the ride.

Jon

[woodbox]

Hey lowrider,
I've not owned one of these, but have an opinion for you, and I hope for your guitar-buying sake, I'm wrong.
Here's my bottom line first--
I have yet to play a 16 that compared favorably with an 18.

Ok, that said, here's my back story.
A buddy of mine had one of these.
And it played well, BUT it was not on par with an 18 series, which I did own.
But mine was a 000-18GE 12fret Custom from My Favorite Guitars.
(I currently have a 000-18GE 14 fret, and previously had a Custom OM18 perhaps like yours)
Let's be clear, 12 fret VS 14 fret makes a difference for sure, but that's just part of the total package.
I've owned a dozen 12 fretters and I like 'em.

You say your CS OM18 is strong... you called it "a monster".
I get it.
This 16 will not run with your "monster".
In direct comparison, I predict it will be tonally thin.

If, as you say, a standard 18 is "quaint" compared to your CS OM18, this 16 will be even more so.
Not withstanding a 12 fret body having enhanced low end.

But aside from that, a standard series 16 is simply not comparable with a Custom Shop 18.
The bracing, the wood, the neck joint... I know, I know.. it's not a big deal, look at all the high end builders who don't use a dove tail.. yeah yeah yeah.
(btw lowrider, I recall some..very few..but some Martin 16's came with a dovetail neck joint, do you know how to tell?)
Im just saying, I have yet to play a 16 that compared favorably with an 18, let alone one of the enhanced 18's like my Golden Era models, or your CS.

I say yes, take the drive, but take your 18 with you, and lower your expectations.
This 16 is going to be a fine little guitar, but it is a standard 16 series.
So appreciate it for what it is... a Martin 16 that sold for substantially less when new.... and there's a reason for that.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by woodbox

...I have yet to play a 16 that compared favorably with an 18...This 16 will not run with your "monster"...In direct comparison, I predict it will be tonally thin...I have yet to play a 16 that compared favorably with an 18...lower your expectations...appreciate it for what it is...a Martin 16 that sold for substantially less when new....and there's a reason for that.

Don't know if you've ever tried one of the rosewood 16's - especially the older ones - but I've played a whole bunch, my wife owns a 000-16RGT, and they're a whole different animal which, while not sounding exactly the same, are IME quite competitive with their Standard Series counterparts. Economies of construction/finish aside, I haven't found any differences in direct A/B comparisons that wouldn't have fallen within the range expected from two identical models from any manufacturer; in addition to the the aforementioned 000-16SRGT (a former jamming buddy had one that was amazing at any price) I've heard plenty of D-16RGT's at bluegrass jams that compared favorably to many an HD-28. In a word, don't sell them short on the basis of initial cost - given decent-quality materials an experienced maker can produce a fine-sounding instrument at nearly any price point...

[catfish]

I looked up UMGF for this model, this one from CL is 2001 year and this was the only year they used Waverlys and Ebony on this model, later on Martin switched to cheaper materials. The CL seller writes in the description that the fretboard is not Rosewood or Ebony but a simulated hardwood compound, -- either is Richlite, or the seller simply think it is Richlite, it should be Ebony for the year 2001, but only Martin customer service can give a definite answer. Possibly, they made changes gradually.

Tonally, it seems to be similar to 000-15S, but a 000-15S has more 'blusier' tone, while 000-16 SGT has more "formal" and "refined" (whatever this means, I quote UMGF member cb00ne).

The seller put electronics into the guitar, to him it justifies the higher price, but I am not sure it will for a potential buyer.