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  #16  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:50 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
Thanks, Cuki! Is what we're hearing a direct-to-computer recording or a mic picking up the amplified tone from an amp? I prefer the tone of the PVDF film somewhat over the piezo disk.
You are listening to the direct recording
* PVDF is on channel 1 of the focusrite 2i2
* Piezo disc is on channel 2 of the focusrite 2i2

I muted each channel when the respective pickup was not in contact with the guitar.

The camera mic sound is muted all along.
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  #17  
Old 04-19-2019, 01:09 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuki79 View Post
You are listening to the direct recording
* PVDF is on channel 1 of the focusrite 2i2
* Piezo disc is on channel 2 of the focusrite 2i2

I muted each channel when the respective pickup was not in contact with the guitar.

The camera mic sound is muted all along.
Thanks, and please keep up with your pickup explorations!

By the way, what do you think of the various Shadow Electronics systems? I like the eSonic2 NanoFlex/NanoMag system (which is a proprietary-preamp system for Epiphone, and maybe better than Shadow's other stock systems) in my Epiphone DR-500MCE VS and I'll soon post a soundtrack of this system. My feeling is that Shadow systems are as good as any other major brand's systems.
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Last edited by SpruceTop; 04-19-2019 at 01:22 PM.
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  #18  
Old 04-19-2019, 03:06 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
Thanks, and please keep up with your pickup explorations!

By the way, what do you think of the various Shadow Electronics systems? I like the eSonic2 NanoFlex/NanoMag system (which is a proprietary-preamp system for Epiphone, and maybe better than Shadow's other stock systems) in my Epiphone DR-500MCE VS and I'll soon post a soundtrack of this system. My feeling is that Shadow systems are as good as any other major brand's systems.
I am sorry Ken

I think I did try one few years ago but I don't remember.

I think there are not so many kind of USTs (see link below). Also the UST tone is strongly related to the location of the sensor under the saddle.

https://hazeguitars.com/blog/piezo-pickups-evolve



Most onboard preamps are FET transistor based or FET opamp based. Similarly there is not a thousand ways to make a high-Z buffer/preamp. If you open a dozen electronic books... the same shematics will come up.

The consequence is that most commerical system achieve similar results. A recent AGF thread showed you can have pickup for 12$ that gives results very similar to more prestigious brand.

I am not surprised.
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  #19  
Old 04-20-2019, 02:00 AM
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Little experiment on altering the geometry and mass of a 2-feet bridge style piezo

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  #20  
Old 05-08-2019, 05:25 AM
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I tried to experiment with PVDF films (PUTW #54 and #28 like)

Here are some videos

PUTW vs PVDF film comparison:


PVDF film suspension
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  #21  
Old 05-08-2019, 08:18 AM
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All 4 piezo sensors, placed behind the bridge like on the videos.

Which one do you like best?

PS: Note that it does not tell how it would amplify through a PA or an amp.
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  #22  
Old 05-08-2019, 09:24 AM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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Best to worst:

#1 - sounded quite decent
#4 - sounded OK, with some distortion and vibration artifacts
#2/#3 - both sounded poor and muffled, with lots of distortion and vibration artifacts.
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  #23  
Old 05-08-2019, 01:35 PM
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Thanks Gordon

1) Suspended PVDF film
2) naked piezo disc
3) K&K mini
4) PUTW #54

Again the pickups are just held not glued or tape.
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  #24  
Old 05-08-2019, 01:51 PM
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Played through my CP8 on the floor I liked 3 the best.
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  #25  
Old 05-08-2019, 02:03 PM
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I see exactly what you mean jonfields number one feels very natural but might be muddy on an amp/pa.

I am going to 3D print to try suspended pvdf in the guitar. Adding some piezo discs and blend is always possible.

I wanted a better high end than the combo amulet + IR and it is quite challenging to make a pickup that is both natural and actually "works".

Practically, You need a dry definite tone.., but you also want some meat, some air.. And no mud.

This might take some time... Lol

Cuki
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  #26  
Old 05-17-2019, 03:49 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is online now
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Default Pickup v1.0 disappointing...

So I had 3D printed a lightweight box to suspend the PVDF film: That's pickup v1.0




Then I realized that the bridge plate was only 3 cm (1.2") large. So the pickup could not be placed under the saddle line...

Since I am crazy, I still drilled the end-pin of my Eastman E6OM and installed the pickup behind the pins with double tape and 5 min clamping... half taped/half standing in the air.

Well... It sounds really bad. There is a huge resonance around 100Hz (playing a G on the low E string) that makes the tone bassy and muddy.

I made a FET preamp and had to reduce the input impedance to 220kohms, to remove enought low end and get some clarity back!!! Afterward there is still a kind of hollow phasey sound that I already got on the previous experiments in that position.

Here is a recording:
1) Without the preamp (direct into focusrite 2i2, 2Mohms input impedance)
2) With the 220 kohm input impedance preamp



Well I need to make a smaller pickup and change position to avoid the top main resonance and get a scoopier tone.
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  #27  
Old 05-17-2019, 05:28 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Cuki, I think you're on to something and I encourage you to keep trying as your initial results sound as good as most SBT systems!
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  #28  
Old 05-17-2019, 11:00 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
Cuki, I think you're on to something and I encourage you to keep trying as your initial results sound as good as most SBT systems!
Thanks Ken!

I will try the smaller box with double pass... But I am pretty sure I have to shrink the whole thing...

So I will have different possibilities:
1) Fold the PVDF film as most people do because it also shields it... But I am pretty sure I'll end up losing some high end and fall into the PUTW realm.
2) Buy smaller film and fold.
3) Buy smaller films non wired and try to make a more 2-D sensor by folding half way... wuth half the film being horizontal, half vertical... This approach did not turn out to work much. (My "young assistants" made me a 2-D lego holder for both direction but we did not get much sound on the other direction when put on a suspended wood plate)

I remember a post from Rick Turner (from DTAR) that position was the most important factor, so I need to shrink to be able to move around.
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  #29  
Old 05-18-2019, 12:20 AM
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I tried to plugged in with the pickup and 220kohm input impedance FET preamp

To prevent mic bleed, I played in the next room with the door closed.

It's not as bad as I expected.

I started fingerstyle and then took a pick as Maury usually does (sorry for the bad playing)





The background hum is due to the preamp which is not shielded. I have less noise going passive to the presonus.
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  #30  
Old 05-18-2019, 01:07 PM
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Default Pickup v1.1

Ok I tried the double pass design. The PVDF film is now folded in a half enclosure...

Since it is not folded in the right direction it is still very wide.

I used double tape and placed it behind the pins on the treble side (clothest to the X brace)... Again it is hanging half in the air.



Sounds too bright when recorded. I don't have to tame the lows anymore with the input impedance... Rather the opposite. It would need a 10 Mohm impedance now (I tested it with the A&H ZED10FX...)

1) Through FET preamp with 4.2 Mohms input impedance.
2) Direct into focusrite 2i2 (no preamp)

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