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Old 05-25-2018, 03:25 AM
Wrighty Wrighty is offline
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Default Matching strings to guitars

Hi all

I have been mulling over recently the best strategy when trying to match a string to a guitar. Over the past 6 months I have tried many sets of different strings with my 3 different guitars and have been trying to establish some sort of a pattern.

My thinking / question was whether to try to slightly change a guitars natural tendency with a string set (for example trying to warm up a brighter sounding guitar) or whether to try to bring out more of the guitars natural sound (such as adding a warmer set of strings to a warm sounding guitar)

In general I have had more success when adding strings that bring out the natural tone of the instrument. For example, on my cedar/mahogany Furch I have found that roundwound / warm sounding strings such as DR Sunbeam or Newtone Masterclass, bring out the lovely sweet tone of this guitar to it’s full. On my brighter and fuller sounding spruce/rosewood Furch I have found that the roundwound strings don’t bring warmth but just soften it’s natural articulation and dull it down. This guitar prefers brighter strings such as GHS signature’s.

I would love to hear anybody’s experiences here - do yours match what I am finding or have you had success altering a guitars fundamental / signature tone.
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Old 05-25-2018, 04:00 AM
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Wrighty - here's some food for thought: When you ask luthiers and larger manufacturers what strings they use, the answer is usually a somewhat generic string (of course Santa Cruz uses Santa Cruz and Martin uses Martin). I asked Dana Bourgeois a similar question a couple of years ago and his response was, "Experiment and use what you like!" (Bourgeois uses D'Addario)

I like smoother strings for the feel and round core\lower tension for the bendability. Heavier strings generally produce more volume, but can also dampen if they are too heavy. Tuning down a half step can really change an instrument's response, too.

As far as the sound goes, some days all my guitars sound great and somedays they don't. Wonder why that is?

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Old 05-25-2018, 04:21 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Hi Peter, as you know our choices of guitars and styles vary considerably, but I have gone through my phase of trying out various makes/brands (not necessarily the same thing) some time ago, and now pretty much settled with D'addario PB strings.

Recently I thought I'd splash out on a set of medium Elixir nanos for my lightly used Santa Cruz, to keep them looking brighter... longer, but then the G discoloured and started to buzz so I went back to EJ17s at a fraction of the price.

Similarly, many on the collings forum rave about John Pearse strings , so I bought four sets and put them on my dreads.
I easily perceived a warmer less bright sound - but it quickly proceeded to something approaching "dull" so none of them lasted long. An other factor was that they seems to be a lesser tension than D'adds and I like (am accustomed to) a fair deal of tension, so, they were not for me.

This was why I stopped using the normally excellent Newtone strings some time ago - lack of tension.

Alarmed by the dramatic increase in the cost of American made strings, I tried some British made Rotosound strings which felt rough at first (less highly polished) but soon smoothed down and lasted well. (I only tried light gauge on my smaller guitars)

The advantage of D'addario for me is the bright punchy loud sound initially, quick play in time and , frankly, the fact tat I can buy them in ten or three packs.

So, yes there are differences in brands, although very subtle, and, of course many of the smaller brands probably come out of the Mapes factories, but each to his own, and there is really little point in recommending one type/make/alloy over another as we all have to go on this journey to discover what is best for us, be it the guitars, their dimensions, woods and the picks, capos and other accessories and, of course, strings.

Each to his own .... and ... afterthought, don't believe the advertising copy!
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:36 AM
musicman1951 musicman1951 is offline
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I don't think it's that simple, or at least it isn't for me.

There are lots of guitars with lots of different sounds, so ostensibly we've all purchased guitars that sound exactly the way we'd like. Maybe, but probably not. Lot's of decisions go into the purchase process. I suppose if you like the sound of the guitar a good place to start is with a string that reinforces that tone.

Then we get to our own ears, or what we'd like to hear from strings. On players dark and lush is another players idea of dull. Add to that mix the kind of music you play, if you use a pick and if you need to cut through an ensemble. Lot's of possibilities.

I don't think there is a better way than investing in a big pile of strings and seeing what works. As an example: D'Addario are popular strings and for me they just don't get the job done. I play with bare fingers and want to hear more guitar and less string. That's good for me, but clearly not necessarily for you.

Currently my favorites are Martin Retro's on the 000 and SUS on the Lowden.
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:47 AM
Guitarplayer_PR Guitarplayer_PR is offline
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Originally Posted by Wrighty View Post
Hi all

I have been mulling over recently the best strategy when trying to match a string to a guitar. Over the past 6 months I have tried many sets of different strings with my 3 different guitars and have been trying to establish some sort of a pattern.

My thinking / question was whether to try to slightly change a guitars natural tendency with a string set (for example trying to warm up a brighter sounding guitar) or whether to try to bring out more of the guitars natural sound (such as adding a warmer set of strings to a warm sounding guitar)

In general I have had more success when adding strings that bring out the natural tone of the instrument. For example, on my cedar/mahogany Furch I have found that roundwound / warm sounding strings such as DR Sunbeam or Newtone Masterclass, bring out the lovely sweet tone of this guitar to it’s full. On my brighter and fuller sounding spruce/rosewood Furch I have found that the roundwound strings don’t bring warmth but just soften it’s natural articulation and dull it down. This guitar prefers brighter strings such as GHS signature’s.

I would love to hear anybody’s experiences here - do yours match what I am finding or have you had success altering a guitars fundamental / signature tone.

Interesting topic. In my case, I just use Martin Retro strings for almost everything. In that way, my guitars will sound basically the way they're supposed to, at least to my ears. The exception will be my GS Mini Koa, but it's because I prefer a higher tension string with it, not because of its natural tone.
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Old 05-25-2018, 07:19 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrighty View Post
Hi all

I have been mulling over recently the best strategy when trying to match a string to a guitar. Over the past 6 months I have tried many sets of different strings with my 3 different guitars and have been trying to establish some sort of a pattern.

My thinking / question was whether to try to slightly change a guitars natural tendency with a string set (for example trying to warm up a brighter sounding guitar) or whether to try to bring out more of the guitars natural sound (such as adding a warmer set of strings to a warm sounding guitar)

In general I have had more success when adding strings that bring out the natural tone of the instrument. For example, on my cedar/mahogany Furch I have found that roundwound / warm sounding strings such as DR Sunbeam or Newtone Masterclass, bring out the lovely sweet tone of this guitar to it’s full. On my brighter and fuller sounding spruce/rosewood Furch I have found that the roundwound strings don’t bring warmth but just soften it’s natural articulation and dull it down. This guitar prefers brighter strings such as GHS signature’s.

I would love to hear anybody’s experiences here - do yours match what I am finding or have you had success altering a guitars fundamental / signature tone.
Just my opinion but I think the wording of your premise is problematic. There's no "natural tone" of a guitar. It's always a combination of the instrument and the strings. No set of strings is going to "bring out the natural tone of the instrument" because without a set of strings a guitar has no tone. When we change to a different string set, we're not affecting the "natural tone" of the guitar; we're simply changing a variable. Yes, a guitar will sound different with different string sets, but the reverse is equally true... the same string set will sound different with different guitars. For example, I love John Pearse strings on my Taylor guitars but they don't sound nearly as good to me on my Bamburg or my Circle String guitars. Guitars will produce a certain tone with certain strings, and vice versa. It's the combination and I don't think there's any "natural tone" because there's no such thing as a string that doesn't influence the tone. What you're hearing is always a combination of the two.
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:42 AM
Wrighty Wrighty is offline
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Just my opinion but I think the wording of your premise is problematic. There's no "natural tone" of a guitar. It's always a combination of the instrument and the strings. No set of strings is going to "bring out the natural tone of the instrument" because without a set of strings a guitar has no tone. When we change to a different string set, we're not affecting the "natural tone" of the guitar; we're simply changing a variable. Yes, a guitar will sound different with different string sets, but the reverse is equally true... the same string set will sound different with different guitars. For example, I love John Pearse strings on my Taylor guitars but they don't sound nearly as good to me on my Bamburg or my Circle String guitars. Guitars will produce a certain tone with certain strings, and vice versa. It's the combination and I don't think there's any "natural tone" because there's no such thing as a string that doesn't influence the tone. What you're hearing is always a combination of the two.


That’s an interesting perspective - thanks.

I’m not sure I agree however - to me a guitar does have an intrinsic tone resulting from its tonewoods, build style, bracing, size etc. My two Furch’s sound very different with identical strings and they also exhibit certain traits to a greater or lesser degree regardless of strings. My cedar / mahogany is warmer & more fundamental, regardless of strings, than my spruce / rosewood.

To me, the strings alter that tone but don’t change it fundamentally, hence my original premise.
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:43 AM
merlin666 merlin666 is offline
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Just my opinion but I think the wording of your premise is problematic. There's no "natural tone" of a guitar. It's always a combination of the instrument and the strings.
I partially disagree with this statement. I'd like to think that at least the higher end guitars are designed to have a certain tone which I would consider the "natural" tone it's designed to have by the luthier. And of course that tone involves the selection of strings. When I plunk down the money to buy a high end guitar then I want it to sound the way it was supposed to by its designer/builder and therefore I stick to the manufacturer specifications. But I also realize that there are many who are more creative than me and have different objectives, e.g. to find the tone of their guitar that suits their style or a particular song, they of course will have to do some more work to modify a guitar away from its "natural" tone with strings that match their particular objective.

BTW, my guitars were all equipped with d'Addario PBs by manufacturer specs, but I am switching over at least some of them to NBs because to me those are like enhanced PBs with longer life, but not fundamentally different.
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:02 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is online now
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I’m not sure I agree however - to me a guitar does have an intrinsic tone resulting from its tonewoods, build style, bracing, size etc.
My problem is there's no way to hear a guitar's tone uninfluenced by the strings.

I do understand where you're coming from. We assign tonal characteristics to all the things you listed, but in the end, you can build two guitars with the same woods and everything else, and have them turn out sounding quite different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrighty View Post
To me, the strings alter that tone but don’t change it fundamentally, hence my original premise.
Perhaps I've experimented with more string sets than most because my experience is that strings can have an enormous impact on the sound of a guitar. The difference between a guitar strung with Monels and the same guitar strung with an 80/20 bronze set is going to be drastic ...at least it is to my ears.
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Old 05-25-2018, 11:55 AM
Wrighty Wrighty is offline
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My problem is there's no way to hear a guitar's tone uninfluenced by the strings.



I do understand where you're coming from. We assign tonal characteristics to all the things you listed, but in the end, you can build two guitars with the same woods and everything else, and have them turn out sounding quite different.







Perhaps I've experimented with more string sets than most because my experience is that strings can have an enormous impact on the sound of a guitar. The difference between a guitar strung with Monels and the same guitar strung with an 80/20 bronze set is going to be drastic ...at least it is to my ears.


I think I fundamentally agree with your thoughts on string tone impacting a guitars overall sound, but I just don’t think it can change it beyond the design parameters of that guitar. For example my Avalon has now had 7 sets on it over the last 2 months - all different and ranging from Monels to Newtone DADGAD to GHS signatures, and throughout this, despite sounding different with each set I would have had no problem identifying it blindfold because it’s basic tonality remained intact.

I have just found that certain “types” of strings bring the best out of certain “types” of guitars - and for me these have been those strings that highlight (rather than de-emphasise) the natural tonality of the guitar.
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:48 PM
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I used to experiment with strings and think that some guitars worked better with different strings. I personally (note that I said personally) find that the string brand doesn't impart NEARLY as much sonic difference as the composition of the string. So, I greatly prefer PhBrz to Brz, non-coated to coated....that sort of thing. Brand is not nearly as important.

I found that Martins were ok, Ernie Balls were a little better, John Pearse strings were cool, but I hated Elixir and other coated strings.

What ended up happening is that I found that buying the same strings in bulk was cheaper and easier and I just used the same brand and gauge string on every guitar. The sound differences weren't enough to warrant the headache of stocking multiple brands/sizes. Again, just my experience....

Then, I discovered Santa Cruz Mid Tensions. All bets are now off, and these are the only strings I'll use. They sound amazing on every guitar, and I love the tension and feel. Plus, they last me about 4 months per set.....LOVE THEM.
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:17 PM
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Just my opinion but I think the wording of your premise is problematic. There's no "natural tone" of a guitar. It's always a combination of the instrument and the strings. No set of strings is going to "bring out the natural tone of the instrument" because without a set of strings a guitar has no tone. When we change to a different string set, we're not affecting the "natural tone" of the guitar; we're simply changing a variable. Yes, a guitar will sound different with different string sets, but the reverse is equally true... the same string set will sound different with different guitars. For example, I love John Pearse strings on my Taylor guitars but they don't sound nearly as good to me on my Bamburg or my Circle String guitars. Guitars will produce a certain tone with certain strings, and vice versa. It's the combination and I don't think there's any "natural tone" because there's no such thing as a string that doesn't influence the tone. What you're hearing is always a combination of the two.
Yup it's kind of like a chicken/egg or tree falls in the forest kind of thing.

---

You are doing the right thing. Guitars do sound best with the right set of strings and I would include string gauge in that as well. String gauge ought not to be thought of as simply a player preference kind of thing. I mean I get that light gauge strings are easier to play then mediums but if you need to drive a D-28 top you really are going to be best off with the heavier gauge strings.

I like D'Addario. I think they are the best all rounder string and best bang for the buck.
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Old 05-25-2018, 02:11 PM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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I partially disagree with this statement. I'd like to think that at least the higher end guitars are designed to have a certain tone which I would consider the "natural" tone it's designed to have by the luthier. And of course that tone involves the selection of strings. When I plunk down the money to buy a high end guitar then I want it to sound the way it was supposed to by its designer/builder and therefore I stick to the manufacturer specifications. But I also realize that there are many who are more creative than me and have different objectives, e.g. to find the tone of their guitar that suits their style or a particular song, they of course will have to do some more work to modify a guitar away from its "natural" tone with strings that match their particular objective.

BTW, my guitars were all equipped with d'Addario PBs by manufacturer specs, but I am switching over at least some of them to NBs because to me those are like enhanced PBs with longer life, but not fundamentally different.
I'm going to say I don't believe any guitar is built with a certain set of strings in mind. You may be correct and I may be in error. I just don't see it.
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Old 05-25-2018, 02:35 PM
vindibona1 vindibona1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Wrighty View Post
Hi all

I have been mulling over recently the best strategy when trying to match a string to a guitar. Over the past 6 months I have tried many sets of different strings with my 3 different guitars and have been trying to establish some sort of a pattern.
Your question is not dissimilar to the age old joke/question: "How do you get to orchestra hall"? "Practice".

While "practice" is a great one word answer, to get to orchestra hall you have to know what and how to practice. Selecting strings, metaphorically, is no different. You have to test and understand how to approach the testing. There is no short cut or substitute.

The considerations for purchase are brand, model/composite/construction and gauge, both individually and as sets. The real consideration is to understand the role that each string plays on a guitar and how each string interacts with the harmonic properties of the guitar itself. What I've found is the most important strings on a guitar are the low E and the high B and E strings. Those are the strings that best serve to "EQ" the HARMONICS of the other strings and the guitar itself. It is the combined harmonic response that is responsible for the tone and character of your guitar.

Some sets work great on a particular guitar right out of the box. But strings that may be great on one guitar may not be so great on another guitar. And if you find a brand and model to start with you may like one gauge and hate another gauge one step away. In fact you may hate a string/gauge in its entirety, but changing out one or two or three strings to a different gauge may take you from hate to love.

Since you cited GHS Signatures they are a great example. [see chart below] GHS lights might be too bright and GHS true mediums might have heavy volume loss. I'll give you my own personal experience with GHS Signatures on my Taylor 814ceDLX...

1) Put Sig Bronze Lights on... WAY too bright.
2) Changed the Sig Bronze lights to True Medium Gauge. Huge loss of volume and resonance.
3) Changed back the low E to .054 (of the light set, removing the .056 or True medium)
4) OMG!

What happened there? (see chart and note gauge similarities) The upper strings produced many bright harmonics. The Taylor being a high harmonic rich guitar responded as one might expect. The .013 and .017 of the True mediums tamped down some of the excess highs. But the .056 of the True Medium low E, while having a stronger fundamental also tamped down the harmonics that provided richness and volume. The answer to making these strings produce more resonance and volume was using the Low E (.054) of the light set and the B and high E strings of the True Medium (strings 3, 4 & 5 are identical in both sets). Using the lighter low E is counter-intuitive because we naturally think of heavier strings as driving the guitar top more. And while a heavier string does emphasize the fundamental pitches, we sometimes don't realize that the harmonics of a low E, freer to vibrate will produce the harmonics that excite the harmonics of the other strings, thus producing richness and volume.

The experience of trying each of these two sets was key to me understanding the role of what I consider to be the most important strings.

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Old 05-25-2018, 02:49 PM
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I don't know. I'm delving into the land of 80/20 strings and now coated as well. I do know that I like Santa Cruz low tension on my Gibson as they just seem to fit well. The Martin Titaniums on it sound fine and play great, but I can't get the SC strings out of my head. I'll be going back to them.

I also like bluegrass gauge on my Seagull folk as it does well with them.

As far as PB vs 80/20, I just don't have that refined of an ear to really hear the difference.

I do keep a log of what strings go on what guitar and if a string doesn't sound that great on a guitar I make a note of it.

Basically as long as a string doesn't choke the life out of a guitar (wrong gauge) or squeak like crazy (Alchemys!!) I find most strings sound fine. Its up to me to make them sing out.
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