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  #1  
Old 11-23-2020, 08:35 AM
euraquilo euraquilo is offline
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Default "Balance" pedal?

I've been consuming a number of threads lately on the advantages and disadvantages of various pickup configurations...
  • Magnetic pickups sound more "electric" than other pickups, but...
  • USTs have that rubbery sound (quack), but...
  • SBTs are more natural than USTs, but...
  • Internal mics carefully placed can give some great "air" to the amplified sound, but...

And the "but" usually has to do with feedback in a live room.
Magnetic pickups and USTs are the most feedback resistant but often sound the least like an unamplified acoustic guitar.
SBTs and mics often provide a more unamplified-guitar-sound-like signal, but they are more feedback prone.

One of the notes I've picked up (no pun intended) on in the ToneDexter threads is the idea that what sounds lovely at lower volume levels sounds less so at higher volumes (and perhaps competing with other loud instruments in a band).

So I wondered if a possible solution is to have a "balance" pedal. It would look like a volume pedal and allow for two different input signals. Pressing down toward the top would increase one signal while decreasing the other, pulling back toward the other would perform the opposite. This could be adjusted in real time for when, say, a quiet acoustic guitar intro leads to sections where the full band plays (and perhaps some back and forth).

And it would solve the issue that some seem to have implied that the purer sound (whether it's from a mic or a ToneDexter) doesn't blend as well in an ensemble mix where a magnetic or UST does.

I guess it could be more likened to a boost pedal switch, but doing more than simple volume step changes.

Has anyone ever tried something like this? If so, does it work?

I could imagine issues with linear versus logarithmic volume curves, impedance matching, etc. Perhaps allowing for separate control on each input to optimize and find the necessary sweet spots?

Just wondering out loud (or, in this case, quietly with my fingers on a computer keyboard).
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Old 11-23-2020, 09:06 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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Fletcher Munson tells us that
At louder volumes the human ear perceives
Highs and lows to be attenuated.so when
Turning up the volume we tend to
Want to reduce the highs and lows.
A pedal like the helix stomp can
Be run with a volume pedal and
Any parameter adjustable in the
Stomp can be assigned to the volume
Pedal. For instance as volume increases
High and low eq can be decreased.
One can also assign say distortion
To be clean at low vol and dirty
At higher volume. The pedal is not
The cheapest out there and the
Vol pedal is a special one made for
Line 6. By mission engineering (2nd link below)
This is the only way I know to do what your
Asking..there certainly may be other
Less costly ways.
The best way to control entire band volume would
Be to have that conversation with the band. If they dont understand
Or cant comply....find another band.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...loor-processor

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...pression-pedal

Last edited by varmonter; 11-23-2020 at 09:16 AM.
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2020, 11:28 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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It's called the Wetter made by the GigRig (Daniel's company from That pedals show)



Just send one signal in the L input and the other one in the L return input.

It should work from what I saw on the video.

my 2 cents,
Cuki
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Old 11-23-2020, 11:44 AM
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In general, blending a pickup with a mic on an acoustic instrument will cause phasing issues do to the two sources not being precisely time aligned. Professional mixing engineers deal with this by introducing a slight delay of a few milliseconds to the pickup signal at the console so that the timing matches the mic.

ToneDexter has a built in blend function that allows mixing the IR processed signal with a time aligned dry signal so that you don't have to deal with it externally.
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Old 11-23-2020, 12:55 PM
euraquilo euraquilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varmonter View Post
Fletcher Munson tells us that
At louder volumes the human ear perceives
Highs and lows to be attenuated.so when
Turning up the volume we tend to
Want to reduce the highs and lows.
A pedal like the helix stomp can
Be run with a volume pedal and
Any parameter adjustable in the
Stomp can be assigned to the volume
Pedal. ...
Good information. I've been starting to look into the Helix Stomp(though it may be outside my budgeted $$).
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Old 11-23-2020, 12:56 PM
euraquilo euraquilo is offline
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Cuki & James,

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately both of those solutions would not be easily adjustable while playing (thus the idea of a foot-balance pedal).
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Old 11-23-2020, 01:30 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euraquilo View Post
Cuki & James,

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately both of those solutions would not be easily adjustable while playing (thus the idea of a foot-balance pedal).
The pedal I posted had a pedal control input. Check the video.

Here is the mono version (Wetbox).

On the left of the picture there is a foot expression pedal that controls the between A and B. There is also a phase switch in case you have cancelling problems (a delay would be better of course).

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http://acousticir.free.fr/

Last edited by Cuki79; 11-23-2020 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 11-23-2020, 01:46 PM
euraquilo euraquilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuki79 View Post
The pedal I posted had a pedal control input. Check the video.
Ah, I stopped the video just short of that. My bad.
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Old 11-23-2020, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euraquilo View Post
Cuki & James,

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately both of those solutions would not be easily adjustable while playing (thus the idea of a foot-balance pedal).
The problem I'd anticipate with this sort of fine-grained tuning is that the performer is not the best judge of the sound the audience hears. If you're concerned about getting the best acoustic sound, I assume you're using a PA, not an acoustic amp. What you hear from behind the speakers bears almost no relationship to what the audience hears, and certainly isn't close enough to make this kind of fine-grained adjustment mid-song. Best to get a stage sound you can live with, and let a sound person do these dynamic adjustments while you're playing. If there's no sound person, you're sort of left guessing, and I'd tend to just do something during sound check to see if the sound is reasonably acceptable out front, and then leave it alone.
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:00 PM
euraquilo euraquilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
The problem I'd anticipate with this sort of fine-grained tuning is that the performer is not the best judge of the sound the audience hears...
Valid point, Doug. Thanks.
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euraquilo View Post
Cuki & James,

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately both of those solutions would not be easily adjustable while playing (thus the idea of a foot-balance pedal).
Understood. There is the WingMan Foot Control Pedal Knob to consider.
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  #12  
Old 11-23-2020, 07:58 PM
schinckley schinckley is offline
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In researching various EQ pedals, I came across the Source Audio EQ2, which has a feature to use an expression pedal to sweep between two EQ presets. It has two inputs so perhaps it could accomplish something like what you’re describing. I don’t have personal experience with it, though.

https://youtu.be/Lvcf3ffw2p0
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Old 11-24-2020, 11:50 AM
aaronmarkson aaronmarkson is offline
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A stereo pan pedal would accomplish this pretty easily and affordably.
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  #14  
Old 11-24-2020, 03:29 PM
euraquilo euraquilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronmarkson View Post
A stereo pan pedal would accomplish this pretty easily and affordably.
Yes, that's the type of thing I was imagining. I didn't realize there was such a beast. Thanks.
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Old 11-24-2020, 03:30 PM
euraquilo euraquilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schinckley View Post
In researching various EQ pedals, I came across the Source Audio EQ2, which has a feature to use an expression pedal to sweep between two EQ presets. It has two inputs so perhaps it could accomplish something like what you’re describing. I don’t have personal experience with it, though.

https://youtu.be/Lvcf3ffw2p0
That looks like an incredibly useful pedal.
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