Carbon Fiber Guitar Sub Forum

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by J.R. Rogers

I don't really want to grow the amount of subforums that we have either, and I've been careful in this area. I could fold the PLAY & RECORD forums into one forum called.... guess. That would free up a spot for Carbon Fiber and Composite instruments - all of 'em.

Other Stringed instruments is a GREAT idea. Our mods were discussing the same thing awhile back and I think this does make sense now given the size of our membership and daily activity.

Well, I for one will be delighted if that comes to pass.


whm

[ac]

I only see that a specialized CF page here would limit and reduce exposure to CF guitars rather than increase exposure and sales. Those with no knowledge of CF are not likely to spend time on that page, ignoring it completely as I do to sections that currently have no interest for me (e.g., Nylon guitar section).

As it is currently, from time to time some AFG members at least hear something about CF. Isolating CF further is not a positive thing at all, IMO, rather it's negative.

MacNichols forum does well and the discussions cover all the CF makers, well known or obscure, and there is praise and criticism of each.

" . . . . Do you really think that a guitar store forum like MacNichol does the best to serve CF enthusiasts?? Really? JR"

After a couple years at the MacNichol forum, I can enthusiastically answer this as YES, really!

And I would flip the question to ask how the AGF forum is better prepared to serve CF enthusiasts compared to the MacNichol forum? Tell me what the advantages of AGF are and convince me. I've been on both forums for about the same length of time and I see no advantage at all of change just for change sake.

Don't be mistaken, I place AGF forum above the vast majority of forums out there for all the qualities that make it what it is. However, as AGF is to the majority, MacNichol is to AGF. It simply is a great community. Small, active, low key and better tempered than any forum I've ever been on, certainly better than AGF, even as good as AGF is.

An "Other Instruments" section? OK. Sounds good. A separate Carbon Fiber section? Not for me and I haven't heard a truly convincing reason why it should exist here.

[Kindness]

Well said by all. I have to agree. As the OP (though it was jrporter's idea on another thread), I too am not sure now about how effective a CF subforum would be. There are two thoughts. It could either increase exposure or it could hurt exposure.

I do think the Nylon Subforum could be combined with "other stringed." Just a thought.

[RP]

There are those who scoff at CF as a legitimate building material, those who say they would never purchase a guitar made from CF, and those who say they would not utilize such a sub-forum on AGF. With 61,486 AGF worldwide members, we undoubtedly have a large number of the above as well as those who own, want to own, and whole-heartedly support CF guitars as well. I don't expect to agree with everyone's views on AGF but try to respect them. There are sub-forums on AGF that I've never visited but respect the notion that others do. I'll probably never buy a hand-made, custom guitar but respect that it's an area of interest for others. I'll refrain from running down my own list of AGF areas that I have never frequented. However, I respect that AGF provides a venue for a wealth of knowledge, information, and a gathering place for information primarily on acoustic guitars. I think that a CF sub-forum on AGF would do what the other sub-forums do. It would provide a dedicated location for discussion, questions, and answers about a building material that I believe has gone from the novelty phase to one of wider acceptance and utilization. There are brick and mortar shoppers who prefer to purchase from a variety of stores, and there are those who prefer one-stop shopping. Similarly, there are those who frequent a number of guitar/musical forums and others who spend the majority of their on-line time at relatively few. I believe that AGF provides a wonderful meeting place for folks who play or want to play acoustic guitars. As I've said, the final decision to set up a dedicated sub-forum for carbon fiber guitars should be a function of whether this makes sense for AGF and not how well others do the job.

[dkoloff]

Originally Posted by J.R. Rogers

Yes, I've been thinking about a CF subforum for a long time. The AGF isnt a bunch of wood snobs. I have several Rainsongs and I play the new Shorty a lot. I also have a couple of CA's and I've carried my Emerald guitar through Europe and the UK enjoying the carbon fiber durability and sound (and light weight! You forget that it's strapped to your back).

Do you really think that a guitar store forum like Macnichol does the best to serve CF enthusiasts?? Really?

JR

I would not mind a carbon forum here as well for everyone to get on board to discuss. But as for the knock on whether the Carbon Forum has been served well by a "guitar store forum".....the answer is defintely yes. Those of us on the carbon forum have had outstanding content from video and audio comparisons, input from the manufacturers(as well as input back to them) and road trips to try many models of carbon guitars. I look forward to the CF forum on the AGF and to see if it raises the bar.

[Acousticado]

Fwiw, I own two CF guitars (both CAs). I used to frequent the MacNichol CF forum, but I haven't visited there for a long time, and likely won't in the future. I like the AGF. It's my one-stop all-things guitar forum. I think a CF page is a good idea. A page for other stringed instruments is also a good idea.

[Ray B]

I regularly participate in the MacNichol forum and lurk around/participate here on AGF. I believe they are both unique communities and both fulfill a need for me.

I like the "generic" emphasis of AGF, but also the apparent acceptance of forum members to delve into the specifics when requested or opportunities arise. The breadth of experience and willingness of folks to share has always been appreciated. Also the openess for different brands and building materials. I think, as others have already said, more people would continue to be exposed to CF guitars by keeping the status quo on the AGF Forum. And that as specific issues/questions come up folks can be directed to the MacNichol forum -- there is no doubt that a high level of interest and expertise is there.

I don't see the need for a separate sub forum for CF guitars (I have three). I would like to see an "other strings sub forum" --especially since I can use all the help I can get in beginning to learn the mandolin.

Ray

[mchalebk]

I have several CF guitars and am a regular participant on the MacNichol forums. I would much prefer that we do not have a CF sub-forum here. I prefer it as it is, a forum that discusses all things "acoustic guitar". I would rather see the carbon guitar topics intermixed with the regular guitar topics so that non-carbon guitarists get some exposure to the carbon niche. If we split it out, those who are only slightly curious about CF guitars will undoubtedly stay way and will no longer get that exposure.

[RP]

Originally Posted by mchalebk

I have several CF guitars and am a regular participant on the MacNichol forums. I would much prefer that we do not have a CF sub-forum here. I prefer it as it is, a forum that discusses all things "acoustic guitar". I would rather see the carbon guitar topics intermixed with the regular guitar topics so that non-carbon guitarists get some exposure to the carbon niche. If we split it out, those who are only slightly curious about CF guitars will undoubtedly stay way and will no longer get that exposure.

Several people have stated similar sentiments, and I just don't understand how those who are not necessarily interested in CF topics will be more likely to visit a whole other forum devoted to this topic than having a separate AGF sub-forum. For that matter, I don't really understand why someone would be more likely to click on a CF thread within the Acoustic sub-forum than to do the same within a separate CF sub-forum.

[mchalebk]

Originally Posted by jrporter

Several people have stated similar sentiments, and I just don't understand how those who are not necessarily interested in CF topics will be more likely to visit a whole other forum devoted to this topic than having a separate AGF sub-forum. For that matter, I don't really understand why someone would be more likely to click on a CF thread within the Acoustic sub-forum than to do the same within a separate CF sub-forum.

I'm not sure I quite understand what point you're trying to make. However, I think it's safe to say that most people who only have a marginal curiosity in CF guitars would not bother to go to a separate sub-forum that is dedicated to CF guitars. So, they might occasionally click on a carbon topic, or even stumble into one by accident, in the General Acoustic forum. However, that will not happen if these topics are removed from here and located in a sub-forum they never visit.

[Kevin A]

It would make no difference to me if a CF forum is added. I doubt I would ever venture there.
No biggy.

I usually only visit 2 or 3 of the 13 forums that currently exist (General, Custom & Taylor...plus the occasional visit to open mic).

Now if they had a "Lefty" sub-forum.....

[ac]

Originally Posted by Kevin A

It would make no difference to me if a CF forum is added. I doubt I would ever venture there.
No biggy.

I usually only visit 2 or 3 of the 13 forums that currently exist (General, Custom & Taylor...plus the occasional visit to open mic).

Now if they had a "Lefty" sub-forum.....

I think this is an excellent example and insight into how isolated and invisible CF guitars could become on AGF. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe not. CF guitars are a minority, it's true--but why isolate them further in a closet, so to speak? My vote is for no subforum.

[J.R. Rogers]

I am actually looking for some ways to segment the discussions a bit in the General section. The problem that we have is that threads fall off of the first page too quickly ~ 3hrs. One of the reasons that I created the Custom Shop section was to organize those discussions and make them available separately from the normal chatter in the general section. Luthiers were putting lots of time into creating build threads that would often get very few views before they were bumped off the first page by the latest string thread. Now, the builds stay on the first page of the Custom Shop a lot longer, and they're so easy to find. You could spend hours reading through the Custom Shop section on your first visit, if you have an interest in hand-built acoustics. I've been told this many times.

Making it easier to find information on the AGF helps the usefulness of our community overall, since most of our traffic is by people reading the AGF for research or entertainment purposes. (~75% of the AGF's traffic is readers.)

The same could apply to CF - organizing all the associated threads into one easy to find and easy to read section. If you read the AGF using the New Posts button at the top of the page you'll get a list of all the posts (in all the sections) since your last visit, so you'll see the CF threads along with everything else, even though they might exist in their own section. As it is today, CF threads are usually buried in the General Section and only found using specific searches once the discussions fall off the first page. If you're coming to the AGF for the first time today and looking for topics related to CF, they might be somewhat difficult to find. That's what I hope to fix.

The AGF consists of topics that are of interest to our audience, and there's growing interest in CF. I'm not too concerned with what's already happening somewhere else on the Internet. It's a big place and there's plenty of room for all of us.

It does sort of piss me off when someone on the AGF sends someone over to MacNichol for CF discussions or help. It says to me that we need to offer something better here, where the bulk of the acoustic guitar discussions are happening every day.

JR

[Steve Christens]

Originally Posted by ac

The MacNichol forum serves well enough for the carbon fiber fans, I think. It's not overwhelmed with either threads or posts. I don't see any need to run a parallel at AGF especially as this is primarily a forum for wood fans--this is natural as wood guitars are the vast majority on the planet.

+1 on this. I doubt there would be enough traffic to justify it, and everyone involved with CF guitars already hangs out at MacNichols.

[ac]

Originally Posted by J.R. Rogers

I am actually looking for some ways to segment the discussions a bit in the General section. The problem that we have is that threads fall off of the first page too quickly ~ 3hrs. . . . .

These are good, valid points.

Originally Posted by J.R. Rogers

It does sort of piss me off when someone on the AGF sends someone over to MacNichol for CF discussions or help. It says to me that we need to offer something better here, where the bulk of the acoustic guitar discussions are happening every day. JR

Understand your emotion here. But hopefully, you are not "pissed" at the people who have been referring people to MacNichol. Why wouldn't they. That is where currently, the most CF info is and if they are trying to be helpful, they should send people looking for CF info over there. If that is the case, I strongly disagree with you.

If you are "pissed" at the AGF for not making it easy to find the information here because it is the fault of the AGF, then I can understand your sentiments more easily.

Maybe you can clarify this as I'm not sure who you are angry with.