Finding lost chops & motivation

[DaveKell]

I'm having a crisis now that I've given up bass and returned to my first love with the acquisition of a new Balladeer. I stepped into the bassist role in an orchestra 14 years ago and really got into it - to the extent that I basically went most of those years never touching a guitar again. Most of my old repertoire was easily reacquired, with the notable exception of my lightning fast bluegrass licks. I have a goal of realizing a lifelong dream of mastering fingerstyle playing. Problem is, my adult ADD demands instant gratification from anything I do and nothing close to that is happening with the fingerstyle pursuit. I've got books and dvd's on order I'm hoping will keep me motivated to accomplish my goal. I am friends with a famous fingerstyle player here in Texas and was chagrined to have him tell me it's gonna take years of practice to get good at it. I'm 58 now and would prefer a faster path. Fortunately, I am retired already and have nothing but time on my hands. Anybody know of a particularly good fingerstyle course that would cover my needs? Specifically, has anyone ever done the Zager subscription thing? Maybe I should have set my sights lower.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by DaveKell

I'm having a crisis now that I've given up bass and returned to my first love with the acquisition of a new Balladeer. I stepped into the bassist role in an orchestra 14 years ago and really got into it - to the extent that I basically went most of those years never touching a guitar again. Most of my old repertoire was easily reacquired, with the notable exception of my lightning fast bluegrass licks. I have a goal of realizing a lifelong dream of mastering fingerstyle playing. Problem is, my adult ADD demands instant gratification from anything I do and nothing close to that is happening with the fingerstyle pursuit. I've got books and dvd's on order I'm hoping will keep me motivated to accomplish my goal. I am friends with a famous fingerstyle player here in Texas and was chagrined to have him tell me it's gonna take years of practice to get good at it. I'm 58 now and would prefer a faster path. Fortunately, I am retired already and have nothing but time on my hands. Anybody know of a particularly good fingerstyle course that would cover my needs? Specifically, has anyone ever done the Zager subscription thing? Maybe I should have set my sights lower.

Hi Dave,
It's interesting to read that your ADD causes you to require instant gratification. Mine caused me to hyper-focus on learning how to fingerpick.

Once I figured out my first little piece (while cutting class at Berklee School of Music), I was totally motivated, but have always remained self taught, and have taught fingerstyle, open-tunings & bottleneck since 1970.

Being dyslexic does not help with reading tab or standard notation, so I don't.

If you're not on medication it might be as good a time as any to consider it. It certainly helped me.

If you decide to take a course where there is no direct feedback, you're going to be climbing a steep hill

Best of luck.

HE
http://www.howardemerson.com/

[oldtex]

Dave, I have used the Zager method and found it to be useful but not the traditional tab approach. It somewhat messes you up from learning the traditional methods such as Travis style etc. He uses a lot of chords that you often do not see, and as a beginner trying to memorize finger placement for so many chord shapes was discouraging. I found a free online source called guitarnick.com that has been just great for a 71 year old beginner like me. Good luck.

[Glennwillow]

Hi Dave,

You should know, too, that Howard Emerson (post #2 above) can provide you fingerstyle lessons via Skype. Check out Howard's website: http://www.howardemerson.com/ Howard is a pro, toured with Billy Joel... check him out.

Regards, Glenn

[trek1500]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Dave,

You should know, too, that Howard Emerson (post #2 above) can provide you fingerstyle lessons via Skype. Check out Howard's website: http://www.howardemerson.com/ Howard is a pro, toured with Billy Joel... check him out.

Regards, Glenn

Thanks for sharing Howard Emerson's site! I love his style of playing!

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Dave,

You should know, too, that Howard Emerson (post #2 above) can provide you fingerstyle lessons via Skype. Check out Howard's website: http://www.howardemerson.com/ Howard is a pro, toured with Billy Joel... check him out.

Regards, Glenn

Glenn,
Thanks for kind words.

More importantly I toured and recorded with Eric Andersen, who is a well known folk singer with a large following.

HE

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

...More importantly I toured and recorded with Eric Andersen, who is a well known folk singer with a large following.

HE

Cool Howard!

I had forgotten about that!

- Glenn

[anton]

Is it technique that is holding you back or are you just not sure where to start with material? If its technique find a book, video, or teacher to address that, but if its the latter perhaps pick five or so pieces in the style you are interested in and work on learning them. That way you are learning enjoyable music as well. I find its easy to jump around between books and DVD's but never really get anywhere. Travis picking, fingerstyle jazz, classical, celtic, etc all have accessible easy pieces of music to play.

Thought I dont play it anymore studying four years of classical guitar really did alot for my right hand technique. What kind of music do you want to play?

Anton

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by anton

Is it technique that is holding you back or are you just not sure where to start with material? If its technique find a book, video, or teacher to address that, but if its the latter perhaps pick five or so pieces in the style you are interested in and work on learning them. That way you are learning enjoyable music as well. I find its easy to jump around between books and DVD's but never really get anywhere. Travis picking, fingerstyle jazz, classical, celtic, etc all have accessible easy pieces of music to play.

Thought I dont play it anymore studying four years of classical guitar really did alot for my right hand technique. What kind of music do you want to play?

Anton

Anton,
He strikes me, based on first impression, as a fairly competent player who is used to being good at what he does, in short order.

He's had a friend tell him that it will take years to get to a proficient level as a fingerstyle player and that's not sitting well with him.

It is, to an extent, unfair for his friend to say that, but he might have said it as a challenge. Sometimes friends know how to get you going in the best way.

When we bought our first house in 1979, I was trying to do a new ceiling and all the joists were out of line, and as I sat there looking at the task at hand, I was totally overwhelmed. I could not even start...........

It was around that time that I heard a talk show host, Dr.Toni Grant, taking a call one evening. She was addressing a caller who was a perfectionist.

She got done talking to the caller and basically summed it up by saying: "I view perfectionism as the 3 P's: Perfectionism leads to procrastination which leads to paralysis"...................I almost drove off the road laughing....

He can do it, but he's got to stop looking at this ideal future vision and put one foot ahead of the other.

HE

[DaveKell]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Anton,
He strikes me, based on first impression, as a fairly competent player who is used to being good at what he does, in short order.

He's had a friend tell him that it will take years to get to a proficient level as a fingerstyle player and that's not sitting well with him.

It is, to an extent, unfair for his friend to say that, but he might have said it as a challenge. Sometimes friends know how to get you going in the best way.


He can do it, but he's got to stop looking at this ideal future vision and put one foot ahead of the other.

Howard... that's amazing insight from just that post I made - but you are dead on the money. After I learned Will The Circle Be Unbroken from a Stefan Grossman DVD, I went over to my fingerpicking friend's place to show him after I had it nailed down. I played Stefan's version perfectly. My buddy then took my guitar and played the same song in a manner that made me feel like I had just played Mary Had A Little Lamb on one of those plastic flutes from music class in grade school. I realized then I am learning dumbed down, simplified versions from the instructional material I have. I am looking for more advanced material as I have been playing long enough to dive into advanced level stuff and pick it up. Haven't found exactly what I'm after yet, but I will.

When I first started playing guitar I only wanted to get as good as Andy Griffith on his occasional tv shows where he sat out on the front porch and played. It didn't take long to get to that level. Then, I got into bluegrass flatpicking and became quite good at it. That was 30 years ago and I have lost all those chops. Now, I'd say I want to get somewhere in between Andy Griffith and Chet Atkins. Aside from my participation in a praise ensemble for 15 years now, I don't play out anywhere. It is strictly for my own entertainment and sanity preservation. I have a theory I want to ask you about. I know all the meat and potato chords on a guitar you encounter on almost everything except fingerpicking. I have two complete chord books. Would it be a good idea to begin learning a few advanced chords a week in order to advance my fingerpicking pursuit?

[unclerufus]

Dave, there is a guy on youtube by the name of Don C. Holloway that is a great fingerstyle guitarist and has his arrangement of all kinds of various songs. He also has a website that you at which you can subscribe to his video lessons of these song for something like $12 a month. The only thing that keeps me from subscribing is the fact that I am limited to dial-up internet at the moment. Check him out and it might be something worth your while. Another thing that might give you some motivation is to hear about the past two years that Pete Huttlinger has been through and that he is finally getting ready for his first time out in over two years. If that doesn't motivate someone I don't know what will. All the best in your quest.

Doug

[Howard Klepper]

Originally Posted by DaveKell

. . . I have a goal of realizing a lifelong dream of mastering fingerstyle playing. Problem is, my adult ADD demands instant gratification from anything I do and nothing close to that is happening with the fingerstyle pursuit. I've got books and dvd's on order I'm hoping will keep me motivated to accomplish my goal. I am friends with a famous fingerstyle player here in Texas and was chagrined to have him tell me it's gonna take years of practice to get good at it. I'm 58 now and would prefer a faster path. Fortunately, I am retired already and have nothing but time on my hands. Anybody know of a particularly good fingerstyle course that would cover my needs? Specifically, has anyone ever done the Zager subscription thing? Maybe I should have set my sights lower.

You have a self-defeating attitude toward your playing. I know it well myself. You are living in the future, worrying about whether you are winning the race against time, measuring progress by the calendar and comparison to some famous player or other, wondering how you can cram more material into a given space of time. It's not so much that you want instant gratification--you want near future gratification: to see yourself becoming a master on the right timetable. And you measure mastery by technical complexity, so that there will always be a standard that you haven't reached. Remember when you reached your goal of being able to play like Andy Griffith?

All this is a mistake. I bet you are not enjoying playing at all, but planning how get to where you will then be able to enjoy it. Do you think there is some book that can make you into the player you want to be? I have a huge collection of instruction books. None of them has ever come close to doing that for me.

The best book I can recommend to you is "Effortless Mastery" by Kenny Werner. It is not a book of fingerpicking instruction. It could benefit you more than any book of fingerpicking instruction you can find.

[architype]

Hey Dave,
Someone posted this link in another thread to James Taylor's website where he gives a tutorial to his fingerpicking style. He is playing his own songs, so not sure if that is your cup of tea, but the camera work is very good. There is a camera inside the guitar body showing the right hand and another mounted on the neck showing the left hand from the player's point of view. I thought it was a good way to see what he is doing.

http://www.jamestaylor.com/guitarlessons/

[stanron]

Would it be a good idea to begin learning a few advanced chords a week in order to advance my fingerpicking pursuit?

I'm tempted to say no. One of the points of finger picking is that as you don't pick all the strings all the time, you don't always have to hold down full chord shapes. Most sites teaching Travis style playing will start with picking around chord shapes but as your playing becomes more advanced you can become more economic with your fingering. It's like the less you commit your fingers, the more options you have open. Only hold down what you have to.

[40GuitarPlayer]

Another vote for checking out Dan C. Holloway.
I've subscribed and I'm very pleased so far. You can unsubscribe and subscribe again any time, which is user friendly.
The website is easy to use. He has very good tabs for his arrangments, along with instructional videos for each song and a performance (full speed) video for each song. You can see a sampling of some of arrangments on YouTube.
His arrangments are so detailed and fun to play, that it gives a wide range of songs to work on -- and even songs that I don't particular like are fun to play and master when working on his arrangments (i.e., Clocks by Coldplay - don't like the song, but love his arrangment). Imagine is another sampling of his that's good to check out.