New Taylor 717 Day....Part Two

[arwhite]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

Thanks for the comparison!

And then it hits me...I prefer the V Bracing because of what I said above. It’s thick, punchy, with loads of sustain. You hit it, and you get louder wood thickness and not just a loud string plink. And, my 717 is louder than any Martin I’ve ever played.

I’m a believer in V Bracing now, but all except one thing...low end. I’m getting more low end now than I did with with the Elixirs and Tusq saddle, but if you judge a guitar by the low end, you aren’t going to like V Bracing. If you want balance and an OM/000 sound on steroids, this is your guitar!!!

Agreed. I like your OM on steroids comment. That's what I was looking for in my 324 and that is what I got. I will say that after 3+ months of playing my 324 it has as much bass as I need and really doesn't give up much in volume or bass to my D18. Especially if I string it with medium lights similar to my D18.

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by arwhite

I played a 317 and vclass 314ce back to back in the same shop and they sounded more alike than different to me. And I could probably attribute the difference mostly being medium strings on the 317 and light strings on the 314. My own vclass 324 bears this out. It is a different guitar with medium lights vs lights.

Really the body cavity size of the GP vs GAs isn't that different. Same depth and same lower bout width. The waist and cutaway on the 314 being the primary body differences. As far as I know nothing is being done differently on the GP vs the GA as far as the bracing goes.

Good point about the strings. They make a big difference. I mentioned in my NGD thread that at first strum I was disappointed in my 317 because to my ears it sounded basically like just another V-braced Taylor with only a hint of something new. I seriously thought about sending it back. Fortunately I quickly swapped out the Elixirs (Mediums) for Santa Cruz Mid tension strings (a version of Bluegrass/medium-light strings) and BOOM - different guitar. And a keeper. Count me among those who think to truly understand the different tone potential in these GPs you have to get the “Taylor strings” off. Particularly for those of us who are more Martin/Gibson folks.

And, yep, Taylor dreads, GPs and GAs share some basic stats - Body Length 20” / Body Width: 16” / Body Depth: 4 5/8". The difference comes in the shapes...especially the upper bout and waist. Helps them all sound significantly different from one another..at least to me. And Andy. After all he’s the one saying the V-bracing brings out a different tone in the GPs. I’m just agreeing with him. But then I’m listening with my ears, you’re listening with yours. No surprise we might hear different things.

Dread


GP


GA

[Shades of Blue]

I just did an interesting experiment. Used a decibel meter app to measure the loudness of my 717 and D-18. The 717 measured 93.2db max, and the D-18 clocked in at 93. Not a big difference, but what got my attention was the average. The D-18 had an average of 85 and the 717 was nearly 87! So, what’s interesting is I can get more volume out of the 717 without trying so hard, but the max volume of each is pretty equal.

Don’t know how helpful, but just interesting that the 717 is louder an average than a D-18.

[Shades of Blue]

BOOM!!!

Just like that, this guitar has gained another gear in the low end. There is almost another dimension of low end coming from this guitar, and the way the body resonates is otherworldly!

I don’t know how Andy did it, but he managed to climb into my head and create a guitar from the tones I wanted within.

Ok, I’m done with the theatrics....I’ll go play some more now!

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

BOOM!!!

Just like that, this guitar has gained another gear in the low end. There is almost another dimension of low end coming from this guitar, and the way the body resonates is otherworldly!

I don’t know how Andy did it, but he managed to climb into my head and create a guitar from the tones I wanted within.

Ok, I’m done with the theatrics....I’ll go play some more now!

Crazy how these GPs seem to wake up after a few days of playing, huh?

First BOOM! is when you get the Elixirs off; second BOOM! is when it hits another gear during the first week or so of playing (more than the typical loosening up of a tight new guitar). For me the third pleasure was how comfortable this shape is. Being used to full-size Martin dreads it took awhile for me to warm up to it, but REALLY liking it now.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Rev Roy

Crazy how these GPs seem to wake up after a few days of playing, huh?

First BOOM! is when you get the Elixirs off; second BOOM! is when it hits another gear during the first week or so of playing (more than the typical loosening up of a tight new guitar). For me the third pleasure was how comfortable this shape is. Being used to full-size Martin dreads it took awhile for me to warm up to it, but REALLY liking it now.

It's amazing because I've never heard dramatic shifts in tone this early on. I can tell you that I am very impressed with V Bracing. It is like the notes are out in front of the string as you pluck, rather than swirling around inside the guitar. It's crazy, and so punchy!

[jazzguy]

I'm going to have to play these soon. I like the idea of the version with the rounded corners. In regards to the decibel meter, I have heard some folks say that the bass is not as loud or present. It would be interesting to see that on a graph. I wonder if an increase in overall volume in other frequencies contributes to a "percieved" loss of bass volume or presence. Not sure exactly how that would be validated other than taking a few X braced 814's and compare them to a few V-class 814's for example.

[btaylor]

What strings are you guys using on the GP's? I see a couple of you are pulling the Elixirs off immediately and the sound is drastically improving? I've played Elixirs for years and love them. I know everyone is different, I'm just curious to what you guys are changing the Elixirs out for that is improving the GP's so much.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by btaylor

What strings are you guys using on the GP's? I see a couple of you are pulling the Elixirs off immediately and the sound is drastically improving? I've played Elixirs for years and love them. I know everyone is different, I'm just curious to what you guys are changing the Elixirs out for that is improving the GP's so much.

Honestly, I'd imagine that anything would sound better than Elixirs, but that is just me. I'm using Santa Cruz Mid Tension because they sound good and last me months. I only have to buy strings 4-5 times a year vs monthly. I know some people like fresh strings, but these sound good to me for a very long time.

Just put on your go to and you are good to go! I just find Elixirs to lack depth and low end. They are all clangy top end and my fingers slip on them.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by jazzguy

I'm going to have to play these soon. I like the idea of the version with the rounded corners. In regards to the decibel meter, I have heard some folks say that the bass is not as loud or present. It would be interesting to see that on a graph. I wonder if an increase in overall volume in other frequencies contributes to a "percieved" loss of bass volume or presence. Not sure exactly how that would be validated other than taking a few X braced 814's and compare them to a few V-class 814's for example.

The rounded corners and body shape is what drew me in....the whole experience of this guitar is like it was just designed for me. My D-18 gives the bottom side of my forearm an awful red line after playing for more than 30 minutes or so. It's a first world problem for sure, but after playing the GP, I have less of a noticeable redness after playing. Like I said, first world problems.

Regarding volume, it is definitely louder than the D-18 overall. Even my wife and daughter notice. I will say however that the D-18 is more dynamic. Play softer and the volume goes WAY down, but play louder and WHAM. The 717 seems to be loud from the get go, but the volume isn't unwanted for sure. It just takes less to get it going.

I'm seriously about to defy my common sense and buy a 517. I don't know how long Taylor will offer these Builder's Editions, but this is the first acoustic guitar I've been head over heels for. Taylor has fed me crow. I was really skeptical on V Bracing, but I love the punchiness and volume of it.

This is also in no way a dig on my D-18. I love that guitar and the sound is unmistakably Martin. I just really feel like the BE guitars are perfect for me.

[Shades of Blue]

Made a quick recording of the new 717. You guys are probably sick of this song, but it’s one of my faves to play lol.

Loving the sound! What do you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p011lvc8pn...20717.m4a?dl=0

[brencat]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

Made a quick recording of the new 717. You guys are probably sick of this song, but it’s one of my faves to play lol.

Loving the sound! What do you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p011lvc8pn...20717.m4a?dl=0

Sounds really nice. And you play it well because you love the guitar.

Enjoy!

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

Made a quick recording of the new 717. You guys are probably sick of this song, but it’s one of my faves to play lol.

Loving the sound! What do you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p011lvc8pn...20717.m4a?dl=0

It does sound very nice, that is your playing!

Guitar sounds brand spanking new!

Oh, boy o boy, for want of more swear words, you are going to get a daily surprise with the tone of that guitar! Now again I subject myself to playing my various guitars on the couch next to the Better Half with a glass of plonk in her hand and it often ends up me having to play something she likes. Eek. Glutton for punishment, the list is short and includes anything by Neil Y, various show tunes that I have in a few books, and of course the mistake of my life learning......Stairway. So last night I played a few tunes I like on the 717e - bored look, then a few instrumentals - bored look, a couple of jumping happy tunes from NY, ha ha - ok, followed by a version of Stairway before I packed up.

And let me say firstly you will never hear it, ever never, but out of a roomful of acoustic guitars I have, there is previously only one guitar that is appropriate for my fingerpicked version Stairway - my 2006 Martin HD28V. And while the fingerpicked beginning sounded ok but 'new' on the 717e, the chords that I strummed with my fingers sounded really good - very 'full'....packed up smiling instead of grumpy in a huff, in other words.....

BluesKing777.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

Made a quick recording of the new 717. You guys are probably sick of this song, but it’s one of my faves to play lol.

Loving the sound! What do you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p011lvc8pn...20717.m4a?dl=0

Wow! Great tune, great tone, lots of feeling in that one; as above, you must love that guitar perfectly suited to you.

I’m glad you let the requirement of rumbling bass go - in a way overwhelming bass can steal the show, so to speak, from the possibilities of a wider more expansive panorama of sound.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Wow! Great tune, great tone, lots of feeling in that one; as above, you must love that guitar perfectly suited to you.

I’m glad you let the requirement of rumbling bass go - in a way overwhelming bass can steal the show, so to speak, from the possibilities of a wider more expansive panorama of sound.

Thanks!

Honestly, the bass is still there, it is just different. Maybe since it is more balanced and a bit louder, the trebles and mids are just more present.