Auxilary PA speaker to help a Bose Compact on patios

Pnewsom · #1 07-06-2020, 07:14 AM

I just started an playing on going outdoor patio gig(guitar vocals and keys). Due to social distancing rules we are positioned at the end of a long narrow space with a stone wall building on one side and a park like area with large trees and a river at the at the other end. All the tables have patio umbrellas over them. Add some wind and the Bose Compact that I normally work with is struggling to throw far enough.

I'm looking to add a quality self-powered PA speaker to give it some juice and have the Bose serve mostly as a monitor. I would hook the line output from the the back Bose to it.

Any recommendations on a speaker in the $500 to $1000 range? It needs to sound good and have enough power to run guitar/upright bass, keys, and vocals. It also needs to have decent bottom end, as I don't want to have to drag a subwoofer along as well.

Quality sound that doesn't cause a lot of ear fatigue is more important than over all loudness.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Nymuso · #2 07-06-2020, 08:01 AM

We faced a similar decision a few years ago and simply decided to get another L1C.

Pnewsom · #3 07-06-2020, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nymuso

We faced a similar decision a few years ago and simply decided to get another L1C.

Thanks Nymuso, that option is definitely on my list, though I wouldn’t mind going with something with more linear throw.

In past bigger stage situations I have plugged the output of my Compact to a single channel of the house pa and achieved very good results, while retaining mix and eq control near by.

I may just rent something in the short term to solve this particular situation, I’ve had a few borderline situations in the past that makes me consider a more permanent solution.

keith.rogers · #4 07-06-2020, 09:50 AM

I have a friend with a pair of L1Cs and the Americana band he was in used them outside for very large and spread events. I jammed with them at a few outside parties over the years, too. I would definitely BOLO for a used one.

If you want a more beamed sound, you can't go wrong with a QSC K.12 or K.10 , even. (I've heard electric & acoustic-string bass through the latter and it sounded fine, so long as you're not trying to shake the earth with modern stuff.)

Goat Mick · #5 07-06-2020, 10:08 AM

I've had really good luck by pairing my L1C with my Fishman Performing Artist. The Fishman has got plenty of power to throw sound in a straight line while the Bose spreads it all around the venue. One of the OSC powered speakers would work well too, but I prefer using the Fishman as I can use it to mix my guitar and vocals and line out from it into the Bose.

jonfields45 · #6 07-06-2020, 10:29 AM

I am using a single QSC CP-8 even for large farmers markets and I've learned how to stretch the backside mixer to cover two instruments and two mics (no tone control, but both of us have plenty of pedals for that).

I've also had good luck running the CP-8 off of an inexpensive MSW lithium battery inverter, but I have not tried that at larger high volume gigs.

YamahaGuy · #7 07-06-2020, 11:01 AM

Yamaha's DBR lineup was on sale. For $325, I'm loving the 10" model.

jseth · #8 07-06-2020, 01:01 PM

I can't say enough good about using those Bose rigs THE WAY THEY WERE DESIGNED TO BE USED...

I know, they're expensive, but the difference between using one rig for several performers and each performer having their own is just HUGE!

Played with a buddy of mine who has a L1s (soloist), and I used my L1 Model II. This was at a gig we had done before, together. I was concerned that we might get some sort of intermodulatory insubordination because of the two rigs within 10' of each other...

Man! What a difference!!! Absolutely ZERO interference between the two Bose units; the sound, although really nice before, was just perfect! My Bose had to work so much less to produce the volume we wanted... everything just sounded smooth and even. Can't say enough about how nice it was...

Now I know why Bose says to use one for each performer... and it's not just so they make more money!

There's an L1c on our classifieds right now, as well as a T1... both for good prices...

Lastly, how do you know that your Compact isn't cutting it? Have YOU walked out in the audience and heard something "less than" what you want? I say this because it's deceptive how well the Bose L1 can cut and carry and cover an area... not experienced with the Compacts, but it's likely that your concern is unfounded "out there'...

RockerDuck · #9 07-06-2020, 01:09 PM

I have an L1c and 2 S1 pro's. I suggest a S1 Pro to add with your L1c.

Pnewsom · #10 07-06-2020, 06:33 PM

JSeth, I was approached by the establishment to turn up twice during the first set. I was already pretty much maxed out for what I could do without getting feed back. I moved the Compact away a bit, moved the keyboards speakers forward and we got through the gig ok...just.

I should point out that I use the Compact for my own vocals and whatever instrument I am playing. In this situation I was running an Upright bass through my T1, and mic'ing a Princeton amp for guitar, along with my vocals. My keyboard partner sings and runs his keys through a small PA system of his own. Our repertoire runs from Jazz standards to Country, Pop, and R&B, depending on what is going over well with the audience. We gave up pretty quick on the Standards(me onbass), and onto more lively stuff on guitar.

It is an unusual situation, in that the audience area is only about twenty feet wide, with the stone wall of the building on right side, and heavily tree'd park turning into a very wide river on the left side. The patio runs about sixty feet and turns right, around the back of the building and along the river. The stage area is twenty feet away from the front of patio and out in the parking lot. It is also about four feet higher than the patio and we were under a 12x12 portable tent. It couldn't really be any worse for an L1Compact. To make matters worse we are playing down from above to a sea of patio umbrellas. Between those, the trees, and the wind it was a tough situation.

All this is mostly due to the Covid distancing rules which prohibit any vocal music from being played within 12 feet of the audience. Normally we would be set up in the corner were the patio wraps around the building and everything would be fine as it has been in past year's. It is what it is, but I need to make adjustments for when we're back again this Wednesday and Saturday.

Today I picked up a Cerwin-Vega CSE-12, 1000w speaker. I'll position it clear of the stage area and pointed down the line. I'll simply feed it from the line out of the Compact and one from the my partner's rig. We'll just do what we normally do and let the extra speaker push it out further. That's the plan anyhow...

It the speaker works out the way hope, I'll keep it. If not, back to the store it goes!

I play a lot of gigs, well over 150 in the three years that I've had my Compact. I love it for what it does well, but in louder rockin' band situations it struggles and can be a little harsh on my ear when pushed to the limit. Adding this speaker should come in handy at times going forward, although a second Compact would be a good choice as well.

Time will tell!

wweiss · #11 07-07-2020, 03:36 PM

Another vote for QSC K12.2 if it's not too late.
If the Bose Compact doesn't fill the area I would skip the Bose S1 and go for the big guns! Buying a second Compact won't improve much the bass you have with one.The Bose S1 definitely doesn't have the low end you are looking for.
I don't think the Cerwin-Vega has the clarity compared to the QSC line. Also QSC's last forever with 6 year warranties.
For the next 150 shows in the next three + years you will be glad you spent the extra money. There's a reason the QSC K12.2 is $800 compared to the $400 for the Cerwin-Vega. No I don't work for QSC but I do own a Bose Compact, a Bose S1 Pro, and a QSC K8.2

Pnewsom · #12 07-08-2020, 06:39 AM

I have a performing friend who owns a JBL Eon 612. He was playing at the same place before we came on to do our stint last Saturday. He sounded very good through the JBL.I am considering one of those instead of the Cerwin-Vega. I'll look into the QSC's.

Oddly enough, upright basses don't require a lot of low end amplification, in fact quite the opposite. I spend a lot of time trying to roll out rumble in the 50-60hz region. Good amplified upright sound lies in the lower and upper mids. My Compact works very well for the upright in a jazz setting.

wweiss · #13 07-08-2020, 10:11 AM

If you don't need the extra bass then save some money and weight and go with the QSC K10.2

Pnewsom · #14 07-09-2020, 07:23 AM

Thanks Weiss!

QSC's are very good, but I'm not sure I want to spend double the money just yet for something I'll likely just use occasionally. My Bose Compact covers most of my duo pub work very well, and I totally love the form factor. Around Ottawa, Canada, where I play, the larger clubs all have their own systems and I don't aim for social jobs like weddings ,etc. these days. So I'm really just looking to fill a small gap revealed by this weird patio job.

I played the same patio again last night using a Sansom PA that resides at the venue. It did the job just fine. Ran the vocals, piano, and mic's guitar amp through it and used my Compact for monitoring.

Returned the Cerwin-Vega CSE-12 unopened to the store where I bought it.

Thinking a JBL EON 610 might do well going forward. They are on sale for $429 Cdn. The difference in frequency response between the 610 and the 612 model is not that great, 57-20k/60-20khz +/-3db respectively. The 610 weighs 26lbs and the 612 comes in at 33lbs. Weight and size is definitely a factor.

There's no rush for any of this now that initial problem has been solved. There are no indoor gigs happening yet due to Covid restrictions, and it will be a while before things really begin to open up.

Thanks to everyone for the good suggestions and advice!

varmonter · #15 07-10-2020, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pnewsom

Thanks Weiss!

QSC's are very good, but I'm not sure I want to spend double the money just yet for something I'll likely just use occasionally. My Bose Compact covers most of my duo pub work very well, and I totally love the form factor. Around Ottawa, Canada, where I play, the larger clubs all have their own systems and I don't aim for social jobs like weddings ,etc. these days. So I'm really just looking to fill a small gap revealed by this weird patio job.

I played the same patio again last night using a Sansom PA that resides at the venue. It did the job just fine. Ran the vocals, piano, and mic's guitar amp through it and used my Compact for monitoring.

Returned the Cerwin-Vega CSE-12 unopened to the store where I bought it.

Thinking a JBL EON 610 might do well going forward. They are on sale for $429 Cdn. The difference in frequency response between the 610 and the 612 model is not that great, 57-20k/60-20khz +/-3db respectively. The 610 weighs 26lbs and the 612 comes in at 33lbs. Weight and size is definitely a factor.

There's no rush for any of this now that initial problem has been solved. There are no indoor gigs happening yet due to Covid restrictions, and it will be a while before things really begin to open up.

Thanks to everyone for the good suggestions and advice!

One k12 is all you need.
I have a yorkville nx10c. that mounts on a pole
beneath another speaker. its 350 watts may or may not work with a bass though.

http://yorkville.com/loudspeakers/nx/product/nx10c/

it sounds good ..