Upright Bass

[Mandobart]

I play a lot of stringed instruments, and have for many years. Quite a while back (~40 years) I regularly played electric bass guitar. Now I've decided to rent a 3/4 bass for a few months to give it a try. Some of my current skills transfer (good sense of pitch and rhythm, able to read music, able to work the bow, etc.) so I'm maybe not a complete novice but I am a beginner on it. I mainly am playing bluegrass/newgrass/Americana these days.

I know there are dedicated bass fora out there, but I was wondering if there are other upright bass players here on the AGF that could offer suggestions for resources and ponters? Thanks.

[PineMarten]

If you go over to the double bass side of Talkbass, the line will be "get a teacher". Which isn't bad advice, but there are some resources that will help with or without.
There are some good and helpful video lessons on Discover Double Bass on YouTube, and even just being able to closely observe the left and right hand approaches on something like that will help. And for books, I find Rufus Reid's Evolving Bassist useful, though it's quite jazz focused. The benchmark classical method book is Simandl, which is the foundation for most players left hand technique in classical and jazz today, but quite dry to work through.
It used to be that most bluegrass and roots bassists didn't use much of the standard technique, though that's changed more recently with the whole newgrass thing, and you can be a more versatile and adventurous player if you have a solid basis to work from.

[bkepler]

I don’t play a lot of bass, but I do teach a lot of it in school. My only tips for someone coming with the musical knowledge is to take your time to make sure your instrument is positioned correctly. Ergonomics play a huge roll in upright bass. Some common problems I see come from the endpin being too short. This often comes from wanting to look at your hand while playing. When playing, you’ll want the nut to be about forehead height. This is also essential for balancing the bass correctly. You don’t want your left hand to be holding the bass, but just helping to balance it at times. You’ll want the back edge of the upper bout resting on the side of your stomach and you’ll want your left knee to be making contact with the lower bout. These multiple points of contact help make everything feel more stable. It also allows your left hand to relax and not “hold” the instrument. One of the biggest things I see is students who are trying to hold down the strings by squeezing them and collapsing their hand. There’s NO stamina in that technique. Your hand should be a nice, open, rounded “C” shape. The thumb is just a balance and a placement guide. The downward pressure on the strings is coming from your larger arm, shoulder, and back muscles. Once they get the feeling of these points, their playing takes off!

[Rudy4]

Hopefully your rental will be something that is set up correctly with proper strings. If they have older Kay / Englehardt basses as rentals that's a good sign.

Keep your eye out for a good used bass while you're renting. If you don't end up sticking with it a good used bass is easy to re-sell. I bought a super-nice Englehardt student model with a very nice bag for $500, kept it for several years and sold it for more than I paid for it. I'd personally stay away from any of the cheap import basses that are sold by the warehouse stores. Good basses aren't cheap.

Upgrading a student quality bass with good strings (like Helicore pizzicatos), a good adjustable bridge, and good tailpiece using tailgut or nylon instead of metal will go a long way toward your rapid advancement in playing and satisfaction.

DO get at least a couple of lessons to at least show you the basics of positioning and fingering to prevent any physical damage to your hands.

[frankmcr]

If you're looking to play bluegrass/americana you probably won't be using the bow much at all.

So you'll need some help with right hand technique from somebody who knows.

[Mandobart]

Thanks everyone for the advice and pointers. I do plan to take in-person lessons locally. I'm also signed up for a workshop in February. I'll check out the recommended YouTube vids.

[columbia]

Eastman (sometimes also labeled Strobel and other names) and Shen are nice import brands and sometimes you can find a deal on a used one. The Eastmans usually come with an adjustable bridge, which is nice to have. Also it's not uncommon to find a good used school bass from the Czech Republic from 20+ years ago.

I like synthetic strings because they're easier on the hands and have more of an old school thumpy/gut sound. The original synthetic strings were Labella Supernil, but since some of the strings are roundwound they can chew up certain fingerboards. Aquila just came out with a synthetic gut-like string (Sugar Slaps) and Superior Bassworks Deluxe strings are good too. These are all cheaper than metal strings, but there's a thriving secondary market for used upright bass strings on TB so you could also go that route. To some folk-style players, super-dead Spirocore strings might be just what you want.

[M Hayden]

Lessons are a great idea, for good technique if nothing else.

My teacher (a long time ago) made sure that I had the fundamentals in hand - ergonomics, hand position, using thumb position, other similar mechanical things. I could read then, so learning to read on bass was mostly a matter of practice, but the lessons on physical technique made an enormous difference to time and tone and ability to minimizing fatigues when playing for long periods.

best of luck!

[catt]

The biggest reason to play upright is arco. Electric slabs enable a good pizz sound, especially with today's gear. But only an upright provides arco bass and, IMO, this is where the fun starts on the instrument. So, you may want to work with a bow - you'll have to decide between French or German. I played French bow from the outset as I also wanted to play cello. Given your familiarity with 5ths-tuned instruments, with some arco experience on bass it would be easy for you to get into cello, should you choose French bow. This is where steel or hybrid strings are more desirable, and probably what you have on your rental bass. Have fun!

[arwhite]

I bought a lower end 3/4 upright from Gollihur Music about a year ago. Mark Gollihur is very helpful with info. I got it to play bluegrass and acoustic jams only. I don't have a bow, but I might get one soon for a couple of the songs we are doing in my little bluegrass band.

I'm not a bassist though. I'm a guitar player primarily but really like the bass in bluegrass music. And it seemed to be the one instrument that was pretty rare in bluegrass jams I went to so I figured I'd give it a shot. I'm having fun with it but I'm still not very good. My little bg band is a 5 piece combo of guitar, mandolin, banjo, bass, and now, hopefully, a fiddle player. We're all about the same level on each of our instruments so we're having fun learning and progressing together.

I'm not good enough yet to play in any reasonably advanced bluegrass jam and I've had a couple experienced bass players give me some "critical" feedback when I have tried, but I'm having fun with it.

Here's a link to a page I found helpful when I started messing around with it: http://pipipickers.com/resources/bass/

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by arwhite

I bought a lower end 3/4 upright from Gollihur Music about a year ago. Mark Gollihur is very helpful with info. I got it to play bluegrass and acoustic jams only. I don't have a bow, but I might get one soon for a couple of the songs we are doing in my little bluegrass band.

I'm not a bassist though. I'm a guitar player primarily but really like the bass in bluegrass music. And it seemed to be the one instrument that was pretty rare in bluegrass jams I went to so I figured I'd give it a shot. I'm having fun with it but I'm still not very good. My little bg band is a 5 piece combo of guitar, mandolin, banjo, bass, and now, hopefully, a fiddle player. We're all about the same level on each of our instruments so we're having fun learning and progressing together.

I'm not good enough yet to play in any reasonably advanced bluegrass jam and I've had a couple experienced bass players give me some "critical" feedback when I have tried, but I'm having fun with it.

Here's a link to a page I found helpful when I started messing around with it: http://pipipickers.com/resources/bass/

If anyone decides to play bass, learns how to keep a good beat, and learns how to play basic 1-4-5-relative minor patterns in the common popular keys then it's usually quite easy to find a small group looking for a bass player.

[arwhite]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

If anyone decides to play bass, learns how to keep a good beat, and learns how to play basic 1-4-5-relative minor patterns in the common popular keys then it's usually quite easy to find a small group looking for a bass player.

This is true. True beyond bluegrass as well.

I lived in Austin, TX, for 18 years and was involved in the amateur music scene there a fair bit. It almost seems like everyone in Austin plays guitar. I used to tell the young cats there that if they wanted to make money playing music they should take up bass. You could work every night of the week in Austin as a bass player.

[catt]

Ya if you want to work, bass is the way to go. And drums. It's what I did most of my gigging on. DB is still my favorite instrument. *(well, after flamenco and electric guitar, and drums that is)

[Mandobart]

Update on the progress so far....

I'm renting an Eastman 3/4 size double bass. Setup is pretty good. I made a set of temporary "fret" markers using a tuner, hole punch and blue painters tape. Practiced going through a few of my standard bluegrass and Americana fiddle/mandolin/guitar songs at various tempos.

At first it felt very foreign to sing while playing the root-five on the 1st and 3rd beats but it's coming along. Never had a problem singing while flatpicking or fingerpicking guitar or while picking/chopping on the mando. Even fiddling while singing seemed easier (at first) than playing bass while singing.

Went to my guitar song circle last Wednesday evening (played 2 hours) and the bass went over very well. We had been rhythmically challenged previously, so everyone appreciated having a steady beat.

Went to my old time jam on Friday (3 hours) These players are more advanced and kind of picky but they said they liked my bass playing and want me to keep it up. Tomorrow night we'll see how it goes with my bluegrass jam.

Not noticing any hand/finger problems yet. At the Friday jam a friend (who has played electric bass for years) wanted to switch off with me (I played his mandolin) when we got to the D tunes (all open strings on bass) to give it a try. His picking index finger started bugging him after a few songs so we switched back. Maybe it's all the finger picking I've done on guitar or all the construction/engine projects I've done most of my life but so far so good.

[leew3]

Thanks for the update. If it's any comfort, I've been singing while playing other instruments most of my life and singing why playing electric bass still eludes me!