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  #46  
Old 07-24-2017, 01:43 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I think you can just buy the VT module. Check with Maury. I've moved the transducers several times, fine-tuning. It can make a difference, but it depends on how bright and thin you're getting. Hopefully, your not installing in a guitar had a K&K before - that's what I ran into, and it's apparently impossible to fix. Otherwise, yes, I'd try moving them and see if it helps. The VT also takes a lot of edge off.
Luckily my guitar has only ever had the Anthem and Lyric installed and they just use a piece of 3M tape. I feel like my tone is 85% there, it's just a bit too thin and bright. I think I will start by moving the treble transducer up just a touch and see how I like it and if the move is beneficial but still not perfect, I will then move the bass.
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  #47  
Old 07-24-2017, 01:45 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
I've moved the Bass-side Amulet in my Martin HD-28 a bit further out (maybe 1/32") along the saddle line and a bit more (1/32") toward the soundhole and it made a slight difference in providing more Bass while still maintaining crispness of tone.

Have you listened to my demo of the Trance Amulet M Dual Mono M-VT Tonewheel's effect on tone? My so-called "balanced" position sounds a bit bright to me and that tone can be adjusted by a nudge of the Tonewheel toward the Bass-end of the wheel's travel. To hear the tone you want in a given playing situation, just repeatedly strum the guitar (a first-position G-chord and D-chord are good) and slowly move the Tonewheel while listening for when all frequencies come into what you consider a pleasing balance. The M-VT module/wire-harness can be ordered and added to your current Trance M system for about $40 (see Maury's post). I encourage everyone buying a Trance Amulet M Dual Mono system to buy the M-VT option for $319. Not only do you get an unobtrusive soundhole module with Volume and Tone controls but it also has a battery indicator light that will warn you when the battery is getting low and will easily enable enough time to finish a gig before replacing the battery later at home.

Martin HD-28 with Trance Audio Amulet M-VT Tone Control Demo
I am going to order the VT module once I get the installation done with. I do remember trying a Gibson guitar with the Amulet M VT and found that I preferred the tone wheel just under the halfway point. I too find that your sound sample is a bit bright in the "balanced" position. I will experiment over the next few days and report back. I think I will try re-clamping them as well individually.
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  #48  
Old 07-25-2017, 09:11 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I am going to order the VT module once I get the installation done with. I do remember trying a Gibson guitar with the Amulet M VT and found that I preferred the tone wheel just under the halfway point. I too find that your sound sample is a bit bright in the "balanced" position. I will experiment over the next few days and report back. I think I will try re-clamping them as well individually.
The nice thing is that once you get your Amulets in your best-sounding position, there is no need to remove them to add the VT module/wire harness to the endpin preamp. Just unplug the Amulet plugs from the endpin preamp and remove endpin preamp from the guitar's end-block and plug-in VT module/wire harness, apply wire guides, and reinstall the endpin preamp to get up and playing again.
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  #49  
Old 07-25-2017, 10:05 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
The nice thing is that once you get your Amulets in your best-sounding position, there is no need to remove them to add the VT module/wire harness to the endpin preamp. Just unplug the Amulet plugs from the endpin preamp and remove endpin preamp from the guitar's end-block and plug-in VT module/wire harness, apply wire guides, and reinstall the endpin preamp to get up and playing again.
For sure. I am actually moving the transducers today (one at a time). I am using the jig again and going by feel to move them slightly closer to the sound hole. It's a bit tricky though doing it by feel as it seems easy to get them crooked. I am tempted to make a second jig but just make the cardboard a bit thicker so that the transducers are a bit further from the bridge pins/saddle.
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  #50  
Old 07-25-2017, 10:51 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is online now
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
For sure. I am actually moving the transducers today (one at a time). I am using the jig again and going by feel to move them slightly closer to the sound hole. It's a bit tricky though doing it by feel as it seems easy to get them crooked. I am tempted to make a second jig but just make the cardboard a bit thicker so that the transducers are a bit further from the bridge pins/saddle.
I had my Amulet-mounting instructions on AGF but now they're likely in the archive section. I actually use the recommended jig (mine is cut from foamboard) to draw lines with a pencil on the bridgeplate where I want the Amulet mountings. Then I construct another jig to hold one Amulet at a time and bring it up to the lines and push it on the bridgeplate and then use my Stew-Mac 5-inch Deep-throat C-Clamp to clamp for 12-hours. The usage of small LED lights and a mirror are recommended. My instructions were developed over frustration from trying to use the Trance web-site mounting method.
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  #51  
Old 07-25-2017, 10:52 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
I had my Amulet-mounting instructions on AGF but now they're likely in the archive section. I actually use the recommended jig (mine is cut from foamboard) to draw lines with a pencil on the bridgeplate where I want the Amulet mountings. Then I construct another jig to hold one Amulet at a time and bring it up to the lines and push it on the bridgeplate and then use my Stew-Mac 5-inch Deep-throat C-Clamp to clamp for 12-hours. The usage of small LED lights and a mirror are recommended. My instructions were developed over frustration from trying to use the Trance web-site mounting method.
That's a good idea. I just moved the treble transducer up and clamped it. Admittedly, I moved it a bit more than I would have liked but it was still a small move. I will clamp it for 12 hours, test the sound and if the bass is still lacking, I will move it as well.
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  #52  
Old 07-26-2017, 02:31 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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I just tested the Amulet with the treble moved towards the sound hole and all I get now is feedback. I find it odd because I am getting the feedback from the bass strings, which is the transducer that I never moved. I have a show this weekend so I might be forced to rent a guitar unfortunately. I think I am going to have to just put a UST back in and suffer with the tone.
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  #53  
Old 07-26-2017, 04:19 PM
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I recommend you call Gary at Trance. Nicest guy in the world and he will walk you through troubleshooting and solutions.
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  #54  
Old 07-26-2017, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I just tested the Amulet with the treble moved towards the sound hole and all I get now is feedback. I find it odd because I am getting the feedback from the bass strings, which is the transducer that I never moved. I have a show this weekend so I might be forced to rent a guitar unfortunately. I think I am going to have to just put a UST back in and suffer with the tone.
Sure sounds like a frustrating installation process but Don't give up after coming this far.
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  #55  
Old 07-26-2017, 05:38 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Hi Petty1818

I am struggling too. I actually got a nice tone at first try but wanted to test other positions (Doug Young's favorite)... I've lost all the "bass" and "air" since.

Note that I did not wait 12h clamping time as suggested by previous threads. But MartinGitDave convince me to stick to the manual.

I am starting now from scratch with standard position to see if I can back to my initial tone.

So far my impression is that the Amulet still have a strong sonic signature. Also I could not manage to get a tone like Doug Young. Moving closer to the sound hole brought more "air" and "resonance" but did not mellow the tone as I expected from Doug's samples. Of course it could find explanation in my ultra short clamping time. Maury and MartinGitDace both reported the 12h were important to get bass.

The 1st install (most successful) delivered great dynamic and strong signal. However I think it will need my IR convolution pedal to make it "mic like".

I've just tried to call Trance but it is difficult for me because of the time delay with Europe. I should have scheduled an appointment. They are very nice and encouraged me to call.



Don't give up, you are not alone

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  #56  
Old 07-26-2017, 05:54 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cuki79 View Post
Hi Petty1818

I am struggling too. I actually got a nice tone at first try but wanted to test other positions (Doug Young's favorite)... I've lost all the "bass" and "air" since.

Note that I did not wait 12h clamping time as suggested by previous threads. But MartinGitDave convince me to stick to the manual.

I am starting now from scratch with standard position to see if I can back to my initial tone.

So far my impression is that the Amulet still have a strong sonic signature. Also I could not manage to get a tone like Doug Young. Moving closer to the sound hole brought more "air" and "resonance" but did not mellow the tone as I expected from Doug's samples. Of course it could find explanation in my ultra short clamping time. Maury and MartinGitDace both reported the 12h were important to get bass.

The 1st install (most successful) delivered great dynamic and strong signal. However I think it will need my IR convolution pedal to make it "mic like".

I've just tried to call Trance but it is difficult for me because of the time delay with Europe. I should have scheduled an appointment. They are very nice and encouraged me to call.



Don't give up, you are not alone

Cuki
That was my finding. My first install was as suggested by the manual and everything sounded nice but maybe a tad too bright/thin. I left the bass transducer as is and moved the treble towards the sound hole. I moved it more than I would have liked but I was expecting a warm, maybe less clear tone. What I got was the same highs but with more resonance, which I feel is making the feedback problem.

I just tried unplugging each transducer individually and on their own, there does not seem to be a feedback problem but once combined, the feedback is very strong. I am almost thinking that the treble pickup is now causing feedback in the mid range. I am not sure what to do now. I could use the jig and go back to square one but it's hard. Ideally I would like to move the treble back just slightly but it's very hard to do without being able to see clearly.

I should mention that this time around, I clamped the treble transducer on its own. Before I had clamped both. I am wondering if maybe that made for a stronger contact, which has resulted in a stronger tone creating the feedback.
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  #57  
Old 07-26-2017, 06:00 PM
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Have you tried lowering your volume and/or reversing the phase on your amp/preamp/mixer? Maybe you have a good solid tone now but you're too close to the speaker? Sorry I don't mean to imply that you haven't thought of that yet but sometimes it's hard to see the easy stuff.

You're SO close to solving this. We're all rooting for ya.
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  #58  
Old 07-26-2017, 10:39 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
That was my finding. My first install was as suggested by the manual and everything sounded nice but maybe a tad too bright/thin. I left the bass transducer as is and moved the treble towards the sound hole. I moved it more than I would have liked but I was expecting a warm, maybe less clear tone. What I got was the same highs but with more resonance, which I feel is making the feedback problem.

I just tried unplugging each transducer individually and on their own, there does not seem to be a feedback problem but once combined, the feedback is very strong. I am almost thinking that the treble pickup is now causing feedback in the mid range. I am not sure what to do now. I could use the jig and go back to square one but it's hard. Ideally I would like to move the treble back just slightly but it's very hard to do without being able to see clearly.

I should mention that this time around, I clamped the treble transducer on its own. Before I had clamped both. I am wondering if maybe that made for a stronger contact, which has resulted in a stronger tone creating the feedback.
I agree on the fact that standard position sounded bright and thin. (Even with the tone control dialed to mid position)

I experienced the same with 15 minutes clamping time.

I have great hopes with 12h clamping time.
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  #59  
Old 07-26-2017, 10:49 PM
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I've haven't gotten feedback on any of my Trance installations at decent volume levels. I've tested the Trance systems with my now-sold Bose L1 Model II with ToneMatch and two B1 Bass Modules, my current Line 6 L2t, and my VOX AGA150. These Trance systems are about as feedback-resistant as can be found in an SBT-based system. Definitely return to the recommended initial locations for locating the Amulets and clamp one at a time with a C-clamp for 12-hours each. How does asnyone use the turnbuckle clamp Trance sends with the system? I was going to try it, picked it up, looked at it, looked inside the guitar, and said to myself, "Naw!"
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  #60  
Old 07-26-2017, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
. How does asnyone use the turnbuckle clamp Trance sends with the system? I was going to try it, picked it up, looked at it, looked inside the guitar, and said to myself, "Naw!"
It's pretty simple after some practice. You just get it close to the right size, then turn to tighten. I've used the C-Clamps as well, but they have their own issues, at least on the guitar's I've tried. It's easy to get the transducer rocked slightly to one side, which won't work well. The turnbuckle makes it easy to get centered, balanced pressure on the pickup.
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