Natasha Guitars' X Carbon

[btbliatout]

As far as I can tell, no one has mentioned this instrument yet. I thought I'd bring it up for review/discussion/comments. It appears fairly new (as of the time of me posting this). YouTube demo and Website links below:

• YouTube Demo
• Website

While it's hard to comment on something so new, what I can say is that it appears this may very well be the most accessible (economic) true carbon fiber guitar available. At the time of this posting, it's $499.99 with no electronics.

It'd be a hard sell to me since I'm quite happy with my Rainsong (which cost almost 3 times as much 8 years ago), but for newcomers to the carbon fiber world, this price tag seems almost too good to be true.

While I'm not in the market for a new carbon fiber instrument, hearing about them did lead me to look at the rest of their offerings, and I was pleased to see that they have quite a few things worth looking at, including nylon instruments.

What do you all think?

[Earl49]

Hmmm... more questions than answers based on that web site. I have been interested in composite guitars for a long time, and this is the first I've ever heard of them. The only dimensions they list are 43 mm (1-11/16") nut width and 41" overall length. Nothing about scale length, neck carve, etc. The neck is laminated mahogany, and no evidence or mention of a truss rod.

On the plus side, the body appears to be all CF woven fabric instead of injection-molded plastic that may have some CF fibers embedded -- such as "carbon-adjacent" guitars like Lava me or Enya. Inexpensive composite guitars are probably a good thing. The market will decide.

They seem to be in China. Makes me wonder about shipping costs and especially for returns if needed. Finish = none is a concern too. If you've ever handled raw fiberglass and itched for days, you know what I mean.

[David Eastwood]

In addition to Earl’s observations, I noticed what appeared to be a wooden cross-brace on the back. You can clearly see it in the video.

It makes me wonder if this is actually constructed much more like a traditional wooden guitar, out of CF sheet material rather than being moulded. It would be interesting to see what the X-bracing is made of.

There’s a frustrating lack of detail in the description, and the player on the video didn’t add anything in that regard. What, for example, is ‘3K Carbon Fiber’?

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by David Eastwood

There’s a frustrating lack of detail in the description, and the player on the video didn’t add anything in that regard. What, for example, is ‘3K Carbon Fiber’?

If knowledgeable about composites, one might interpret that as a 3 x 3 twill weave. Or it could just be meaningless marketing-speak. I have often found that when there is a lack of disclosure on a website, it is likely an unwillingness to reveal potentially unflattering information.

I would be happy to try one if the opportunity presented, but I'm not willing to purchase first and take my chances with QC and the unknowns. The ability to return a defective guitar (or the cost) across the Pacific Ocean is a concern.

[btbliatout]

EST Carbon has a site that explains a little bit about what 3K Carbon Fiber is:

• https://estcarbon.com/blog/carbon-fiber-what-is-k/

Anyhow, I sent a message to them via their Contact Us page asking for some additional details. Specifically asking about Scale Length, Neck Radius, Truss Rod, Depth, if pickup batteries are replaceable, and whether there's a case or bag that comes with it. First test is to see if they reply .

Not that it's about carbon fiber, but I also inquired about their bamboo classical guitar. I'm very curious about bamboo instruments. I hear Yamaha may have made one in the past, but it didn't survive. I believe Luna has one currently available. I can't find many strong statements about how bamboo works (for better or worse) for guitars. A handful of theoretical comments, but very few from folks who own(ed) such an instrument. I'm interested to see what they have to say about that too. Who knows, if the bamboo is actually 50% glue, it might not project much, but may have the same environmental resistance that carbon fiber instruments do?

[kurth]

natasha sells on amazon...which would make things easier. It will probably turn up there at some point.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by btbliatout

EST Carbon has a site that explains a little bit about what 3K Carbon Fiber is:

• https://estcarbon.com/blog/carbon-fiber-what-is-k/

Thanks for this! It seems to describe various grades of CF, and specifically refers to CF ‘plates’.

Anyhow, I sent a message to them via their Contact Us page asking for some additional details. Specifically asking about Scale Length, Neck Radius, Truss Rod, Depth, if pickup batteries are replaceable, and whether there's a case or bag that comes with it. First test is to see if they reply .

I’ll be interested in their response - even their most expensive guitars, which are well over 10x the cost of this one have similarly sparse specifications. They do all include the utterly useless ‘overall length’, however

Not that it's about carbon fiber, but I also inquired about their bamboo classical guitar. I'm very curious about bamboo instruments. I hear Yamaha may have made one in the past, but it didn't survive. I believe Luna has one currently available. I can't find many strong statements about how bamboo works (for better or worse) for guitars. A handful of theoretical comments, but very few from folks who own(ed) such an instrument. I'm interested to see what they have to say about that too. Who knows, if the bamboo is actually 50% glue, it might not project much, but may have the same environmental resistance that carbon fiber instruments do?

Yamaha made a bamboo acoustic many years ago (30+, IIRC), and it suffered from exactly what you suggest - there was a lot of glue holding all those little strips together, and it was sonically a bit of a bust. By all accounts, that is - I never actually saw one.

[btbliatout]

Reply received from Natasha Guitars within hours! A very pleasant response too (very welcomed, as my experience with some foreign companies has sometimes been very terse and bordering rude).

So the X Carbon guitar has:

• Scale Length: 650mm
• Neck Radius: 380mm (15")
• Depth: 100mm (3.94")
• Has a Truss Rod: Yes
• Replaceable Pickup Battery: Yes (for long term concerns)
• Gig Bag Included: Yes

And for anyone who cares about their bamboo classical guitar (or bamboo as an alternate material), the short version is it seems more similar to Blackbird Guitar's Ekoa than HPL, or just a bunch of bamboo strips glued together. To elaborate, the bamboo undergoes carbonization, de-sugaring, carbonization again, then the resulting fibers are bonded into board, followed by painting. I did some reading and found that this general concept is used to create bamboo flooring, perhaps without the painting. The end result is that it (in their opinion, and supported by my reading about bamboo flooring) is more resistant to humidity/dryness than traditional woods. It also is their opinion that the volume is very comparable to other classical guitars in the same price range, though it of course has it's own unique sound (as all materials do).

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by btbliatout

Reply received from Natasha Guitars within hours! A very pleasant response too (very welcomed, as my experience with some foreign companies has sometimes been very terse and bordering rude).

So the X Carbon guitar has:

• Scale Length: 650mm
• Neck Radius: 380mm (15")
• Depth: 100mm (3.94")
• Has a Truss Rod: Yes
• Replaceable Pickup Battery: Yes (for long term concerns)
• Gig Bag Included: Yes

And for anyone who cares about their bamboo classical guitar (or bamboo as an alternate material), the short version is it seems more similar to Blackbird Guitar's Ekoa than HPL, or just a bunch of bamboo strips glued together. To elaborate, the bamboo undergoes carbonization, de-sugaring, carbonization again, then the resulting fibers are bonded into board, followed by painting. I did some reading and found that this general concept is used to create bamboo flooring, perhaps without the painting. The end result is that it (in their opinion, and supported by my reading about bamboo flooring) is more resistant to humidity/dryness than traditional woods. It also is their opinion that the volume is very comparable to other classical guitars in the same price range, though it of course has it's own unique sound (as all materials do).

Interesting - thanks for posting the followup.

[The Bard Rocks]

Originally Posted by btbliatout

Reply received from Natasha Guitars within hours! A very pleasant response too (very welcomed, as my experience with some foreign companies has sometimes been very terse and bordering rude).

So the X Carbon guitar has:

• Scale Length: 650mm
• Neck Radius: 380mm (15")
• Depth: 100mm (3.94")
• Has a Truss Rod: Yes
• Replaceable Pickup Battery: Yes (for long term concerns)
• Gig Bag Included: Yes

And for anyone who cares about their bamboo classical guitar (or bamboo as an alternate material), the short version is it seems more similar to Blackbird Guitar's Ekoa than HPL, or just a bunch of bamboo strips glued together. To elaborate, the bamboo undergoes carbonization, de-sugaring, carbonization again, then the resulting fibers are bonded into board, followed by painting. I did some reading and found that this general concept is used to create bamboo flooring, perhaps without the painting. The end result is that it (in their opinion, and supported by my reading about bamboo flooring) is more resistant to humidity/dryness than traditional woods. It also is their opinion that the volume is very comparable to other classical guitars in the same price range, though it of course has it's own unique sound (as all materials do).

Bamboo is also surprisingly hard.

[kurth]

well I just spent a few minutes looking at natasha guitars....and they make a bunch of interesting guitars...not the least of which is this full cf model. Here are the 3 pickup options , along with no pickup at all. I'd be awful tempted by the ns3, if I was buying one.
https://natashaguitar.com/pages/pickups

[brainfertilizer]

I don't think they have a full cf model.
The only cf model I can find listed has a 5 piece mahogany neck, and HPL fretboard, nut, and bridge.
https://natashaguitar.com/collection...ducts/x-carbon

[kurth]

Originally Posted by brainfertilizer

I don't think they have a full cf model.
The only cf model I can find listed has a 5 piece mahogany neck, and HPL fretboard, nut, and bridge.
https://natashaguitar.com/collection...ducts/x-carbon

"full cf" in terms that the body is all cfsheet, rather than casted cf-like mat'l on the enya's.

[brainfertilizer]

ah. thanks.

[SpruceTop]

IMHO Natasha and Enya guitars sure seem to be a carbon/composite guitar revolution! What other companies can offer what these companies do for minimal cost? Memo To All Other Guitar Companies, American and Otherwise: Pay Attention!