Neck Joints

[Troubador]

Is there a neck joint that is superior to others? Is the Dovetail Neck Joint superior to the Mortise/Tenon Neck Joint? What about a bolt-on? Or does this matter at all?

[Wade Hampton]

Executed properly, all of those neck attachment systems work equally well.


whm

[jaymarsch]

Agree with Wade. All of those methods are tried and true ways of attaching the neck to the body of the guitar. Some folks prefer a bolt on because it is less costly to get a neck reset down the line. Others prefer the traditional dovetail. Personal preference.
Best,
Jayne

[Troubador]

In my thread about the HD-16R and HD-28, I seem to remember that some implied or stated that the Mortise/Tenon was inferior to the Dovetail. I haven't gone back and reread that thread, but I believe I'm correct in my remembering.

[Malcolm Kindnes]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Executed properly, all of those neck attachment systems work equally well.


whm

100% agree with this statement, I have guitars with various different neck joints and it makes no difference to the sound.

[Troubador]

Originally Posted by Malcolm Kindnes

100% agree with this statement, I have guitars with various different neck joints and it makes no difference to the sound.

What about durability, though? Is any one better than the other(s)?

[ProfChris]

Originally Posted by Troubador

What about durability, though? Is any one better than the other(s)?

If they are well made, all should last a century or more!

The difference becomes important for future work on the guitar. All guitars try to fold up around the sound hole, that's inherent to the guitar design, so a neck reset is likely to be needed as some point unless the thing is built like a tank (and probably sounds like one). Here, bolt-ons are usually quite easy, dovetails trickier to do but still serviceable, whilst a glued mortice and tenon is harder to remove and reset and a dowelled joint might be impossible to open without causing damage.

[Troubador]

Originally Posted by ProfChris

If they are well made, all should last a century or more!

The difference becomes important for future work on the guitar. All guitars try to fold up around the sound hole, that's inherent to the guitar design, so a neck reset is likely to be needed as some point unless the thing is built like a tank (and probably sounds like one). Here, bolt-ons are usually quite easy, dovetails trickier to do but still serviceable, whilst a glued mortice and tenon is harder to remove and reset and a dowelled joint might be impossible to open without causing damage.

Thanks for the info. I thought a mortise and tenon was easier to reset than a dovetail, based on some things I've read.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Troubador

Is there a neck joint that is superior to others? Is the Dovetail Neck Joint superior to the Mortise/Tenon Neck Joint? What about a bolt-on? Or does this matter at all?

The joint has to hold the neck to the body firmly, with stability and enable good vibration transfer between the nut/fret end of the strings back into the body of the guitar (sound box). There are many different ways of doing this well without the neck joint failing.

It tends to be what happens after the neck joint that seems to be where issues arise on steel strung guitars. A neck reset on a dovetail Martin is less likely to be caused by the joint itself separating but rather by the neck and the neck block moving as a pair in relation to the body and so changing the geometry. This can happen with any type of neck joint, unless such issues are addressed by different design solutions for the whole neck to body attachment.

[lowrider]

I'm going to go against the grain and say that everything affects tone. Guitar makers who use a tapered dovetail joint, including Martin, Gibson, Guild, and the top individual makers like Somogy and Sexauer will say that the neck joint is one of the things that contribute to their tone.

Others like Taylor, Collings, and Borgeous will say that they get great tone with a bolt-on neck and if your guitar needs a neck reset, it can be done easily.

I'll choose the guitar that sounds good to me. If it needs a neck reset in 15 or 20 years, I'll have it done and just consider it part of the cost of playing a guitar that I love.

[Troubador]

Originally Posted by lowrider

I'm going to go against the grain and say that everything affects tone. Guitar makers who use a tapered dovetail joint, including Martin, Gibson, Guild, and the top individual makers like Somogy and Sexauer will say that the neck joint is one of the things that contribute to their tone.

Others like Taylor, Collings, and Borgeous will say that they get great tone with a bolt-on neck and if your guitar needs a neck reset, it can be done easily.

I'll choose the guitar that sounds good to me. If it needs a neck reset in 15 or 20 years, I'll have it done and just consider it part of the cost of playing a guitar that I love.

And I would do that, too, but affordability would be an issue with me.

[PineMarten]

I wondered if it was one of those things like the style of scroll carving on violins, that might not be crucial to a particular tone, but is indicative of attention to detail and of the particular building style the maker is going for.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by lowrider

I'm going to go against the grain and say that everything affects tone.

To immensely varying degrees, yes. But I've never met nor heard of anyone who can play a guitar blindfolded and tell us what kind of neck joint it has. The OP is getting himself lost in the weeds worrying over neck joints.

Originally Posted by lowrider

I'll choose the guitar that sounds good to me.

THAT should be the foremost consideration.

Originally Posted by Troubador

And I would do that, too, but affordability would be an issue with me.

If your finances are that tight, I'd think spending money on any guitar might be a bad idea, but if you must, maybe stick to guitars on the very low end of the cost spectrum so that in the future, should they need neck work, it would be cheaper to just replace the guitar with another very inexpensive one.

[sinistral]

In the context of lutherie, neck joints are as close as one can come to religion, and religion is not a permitted topic on the forum. Some very well-respected luthiers and guitar makers claim that a dovetail neck joint is sonically superior—Richard Hoover of SCGC is one example.

Santa Cruz Guitar Company—What’s Our Secret?

Dovetail Joint:
Sonically Superior to a Bolt-On Neck or We Wouldn’t Take the Time to Do It.

The dovetail jointed neck allows us a considerable degree of control over the presence of the guitar. The tonal advantage of the dovetail is not a matter of opinion; it is supported by acoustic physics. The dovetail joint is a crucial element in voicing and tuning our guitars to be extremely responsive and powerful to the audience. The simplicity of our design facilitates undetectable removal for neck angle resetting or replacement due to trauma. Our dovetail design is the proven product of generations of master violin luthiers.

Plenty of other well-respected luthiers and guitar makers claim otherwise.

This topic has been hotly debated here and elsewhere. Here are a couple of threads on the topic that were closed because the discussion overheated:

Dovetail vs bolt on neck joint

Dovetail or Bolt On

There are many more discussions on the topic—here is a sampling:

Mortise & tenon vs. dovetail neck joints?

Dovetail or Bolts ??

Luthiers reaction to Gibsons comment about Dovetail VS Bolt please

To the Martin afficionados: Mortise tenon vs. Dovetail neck joint

Are you sold on the bolt-on joint as opposed the traditional dovetail

Dovetail or bolt-on - again?

Dovetail and Bolt-On Necks: Can you Hear the difference?

Significance of a Dovetail Neck Joint

Are Dovetail necks going extinct?

Bolt on neck or dovetail

Originally Posted by jim1960

To immensely varying degrees, yes. But I've never met nor heard of anyone who can play a guitar blindfolded and tell us what kind of neck joint it has. The OP is getting himself lost in the weeds worrying over neck joints.



THAT should be the foremost consideration.



If your finances are that tight, I'd think spending money on any guitar might be a bad idea, but if you must, maybe stick to guitars on the very low end of the cost spectrum so that in the future, should they need neck work, it would be cheaper to just replace the guitar with another very inexpensive one.

This is really sound advice (no pun intended).

[Robin, Wales]

...Our dovetail design is the proven product of generations of master violin luthiers...

I think that he may find that Stradivarius nailed his necks on!!!!!