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Old 04-01-2022, 06:52 PM
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warfrat73 warfrat73 is offline
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Another NMD for me. After hearing Br1ck speak so highly of his Silverangel, I started looking into them. And based on what I read here and over at MandolinCafe, and heard on YouTube, I decided to go for it when the opportunity arrived.

I picked up this Econo model new from Ken off of the MandoCafe classifieds. It was a little more than I was hoping to spend, but $1500 for a brand new hand built instrument is pretty good.

It sounds great. Much fuller, more resonant and more woody than my Kentucky KM-500, the trebles are more musical (less tinny) and the bass is more robust and punchy.

Italian spruce top, curly maple b&s and neck, Rubner tuners with ebony buttons, pickup, radiused fretboard with oversized frets.

It looks great from a few feet back, but there is some evidence of cut corners to build to a price point. A tool mark by the nut on the bass side, a few splotches of stain under the finish. Some other minor finish issues (a couple of streaks, a weird ring near the logo). A little unevenness in the f-holes. A small patch at the far end of the bass side bout.

I didn't expect absolute perfection at these prices, but that list of compromises is a bit longer than I anticipated.

I'm leaning towards keeping it because I like how it sounds, but I'm a bit on the fence.





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Last edited by warfrat73; 04-01-2022 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 04-01-2022, 07:16 PM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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Looks great! With everything as you honestly described I would keep it. $1500 for a decent looking, good sounding, hand built carved mandolin is well worth it. If you like the tone and playability you got a good deal.

As you know a $1500 carved mandolin is equivalent to what you might expect in a $500 - $700 flattop guitar in terms of build quality.
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Old 04-01-2022, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandobart View Post
As you know a $1500 carved mandolin is equivalent to what you might expect in a $500 - $700 flattop guitar in terms of build quality.
Yeah, he can't be making much profit on these.
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Old 04-02-2022, 03:22 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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Well, Ken has always built relics for the most part. For the same money, Kentucky can get you a CNC factory built mandolin if that is what you want. Won't sound as good though. I used to go into Gryphon and play their Collings MTs and wish I'd had one. Then my Silverangel needed tweaking and they did that while I waited. I went into the mando room and was playing Collings and Northfields while waiting. The tech brought me my Silverangel and it was the first time I'd played them side by side.

They were of equal sonic quality. Different for sure, but a Silverangel hurdles over the sonic fence to the land of the good stuff. I think the Kentucky Master series are close but no cigar. I bought my Silverangel, a fully bound A style, for $1400 used. It has X bracing and a redwood top. It has mild relicing, with shrunken binding, lacquer shrinkage between the top grain, cracked binding, and string winder scuffing from eighty years of use. It really does look like a well cared for 80 year old instrument. It fills a slot for warm and resonant almost oval hole tone. I've not played anything close to the tone for the money. Yes, for $3K you can get an MT. It will be perfect. Tone is subjective.

Ken has had some health issues, and sells as he makes them which is sporadic at best. They are truly the gateway to the good stuff. Helpful hint, they sound better with heavier strings. Don't know what he ships them with.
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Old 04-02-2022, 03:46 PM
pjheff pjheff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
Helpful hint, they sound better with heavier strings. Don't know what he ships them with.
I’m pretty sure he ships them with D’Addario EJ75’s. I had an A5 from him acquired in trade with a sinking top that Ken generously replaced for only the cost of shipping. I ultimately moved it along for better which only came at a higher price point.
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Old 04-03-2022, 02:57 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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I'd say not better but different. My Silverangel isn't the best for bluegrass, but you can do that. The chop packs a punch, but SAs are not treble machines. But what a difference between my SA and the Eastman MD 505 it replaced. My problem with the Eastman was I had chances to play Collings, Northfield, and the odd Weber and Gibsons that came through. Once you hear a good G course, it's hard to go back.

I have no illusions to ever get to the good stuff. I played an Ellis once, at a mere $9000 used. That was the gateway to Gilchrist, Dudenbostel, Gibson Masters and such.

But I'm happy to have my Weber to play everyday, with my homebrew, SA, and 1913 Gibson A1 filling the gaps. Would I sell out to get one stellar mandolin? Perhaps.

The Facebook mandolin group is a hoot, with a lot of folks looking to upgrade to a Kentucky KM 150. Ignorance can be bliss. Trust me, don't pick up a Northfield F 5S if you never intend to spend that much. The F5 S is a true value in a fine instrument. I'm hopelessly addicted to the scroll. Don't do that if you want money in the bank.

Bottom line. I would sell my SA, but then I play it. Great neck. Nothing comes close for the money. I can not see anyone coming from a Kentucky or Eastman being disappointed, unless a bright tone like a Collings is your thing. Then double your money, buy one and forget the pain.

PS, my Silverangel is likely to be the most resonant and warm sounding of all SAs, it being redwood topped and X braced. I'm sure the spruce topped tone bar braced are brighter, though Ken will never abandon his love for lush low end.
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Last edited by Br1ck; 04-03-2022 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 04-09-2022, 11:52 AM
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Made a little sound sampler.
MXL V250 (large diaphragm condenser)-> behringer U-Phoria UMC202HD->Audacity

Open strings -> open chords -> chopped chords (sort of) -> Clinch Mountain Backstep.

the A and E courses are slight out. And the playing is a little sloppy. But I'm still fairly new to mandolin.

https://dgbrown.expressions.syr.edu/...ilverangel.mp3
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Old 04-09-2022, 11:53 AM
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Also, upon further reflection, I don't think there's a patch in the back, I think it's just grain runout or something. But the figure definitely shifts:

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Old 04-09-2022, 03:39 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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Kind of unusual, but grain can change abruptly acording to depth, so I think once you sand off a lot of wood , the grain can be quite different. Some book matched mandolins don't look too bookmatched, and it is really just the width of a saw blade removed.

Another oddity you might notice. My bridge looks like the metal screw posts are bent. In reality, the posts are put in the bridge at a slight backwards angle to counteract the strings pulling toward the neck. Ken may still be doing this. It's a brilliant design. I asked him about it. My mandolin is a 2013.

Ken sure found out there was a market when he announced the first batch six or seven years ago. Audy Ratliff found that out with the Country Boy model. I think there were a batch of ten and they presold pretty quickly. I can't remember a fancier A style built since. He's doing some two points to fill that price point. Another thing you might see is oil paintings of Angels on the backs of some F 5 style instruments. He's a talented painter too.
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Old 04-09-2022, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
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Ken sure found out there was a market when he announced the first batch six or seven years ago. Audy Ratliff found that out with the Country Boy model.
When I first started reading these things a couple of months ago I spent about a week thinking that the Silverangels and the Country Boys were made by the same person... Ratcliff and Ratliff sure look similar when you're not reading as carefully as you should.
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Bourgeois DR-A / Bowerman "Working Man's" OM / Martin Custom D-18 (adi & flame) / Martin OM-21 / Northwood M70 MJ / 1970s Sigma DR-7 / Eastman E6D / Flatiron Signature A5 / Silverangel Econo A
(Call me Dan)
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Old 04-10-2022, 03:38 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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I believe they live within a hundred miles of each other. Audy Ratliff has a weekly mandolin diary series on YouTube where he takes you through the ten or so batch building process. Last batch had two mandocellos.
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Old 04-19-2022, 12:46 AM
stevo58 stevo58 is offline
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I bought an Econo A a few years ago. I live in Switzerland, and when Ken shipped it, the clerk was off-by-one and it ended up in Swaziland. Ken and his wife did everything possible but after three months, we gave up and figured it was lost forever. We had an agreement on a replacement, and he had actually started on it, when suddenly it showed up, in perfect condition. Sighs of relief all around. Ken is an absolute straight-up guy.

I love the mandolin. Is it flawless workmanship? No, there are a few (very) minor things I wouldn’t accept on a $4k mandolin. Is the wood exquisite? Yes. Is the finish well-done? Yes. Does it play well? Yes. Does it sound good? Yes, very good. You won’t get anything near this quality at this price.

Mandolin is my third instrument, and this is a much better instrument than I deserve. I’m not going to go out and buy a F; I don’t rate it and it wouldn’t bring me anything. If I were to replace the SA with anything different, it would be a vintage oval-hole Gibson, but for the bit of blues I play, the SA more than good enough. It is no compromise in any important way.

If you can’t live with the minor flaws, send it back,but anything else at the price will be inferior.

And yes, Ken builds for EJ75s. I tried 74s and Martin Retros on mine and went back to the 75s.

Steven

Last edited by stevo58; 04-19-2022 at 12:56 AM.
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Old 04-19-2022, 02:05 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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I've played nothing close for the price. Any build issues are moot on my moderately reliced mandolin. My Silverangel fills the sonic spectrum between my Weber Yellowstone and my Gibson A 1. It is the closest you are going to get to an oval hole with an f hole mandolin.

If you were a bluegrass guy, you'd probably like a Kentucky master model better. Subjective. Considering the used prices for Collings MTs, the SA is a bargain. I did play my SA back to back with an MT, and came away thinking equal but different. The MT has a more fashionable sound, not a better one. If you want to jump, the jump that really matters, to a top notch tone, the SA is far better than spending money on a top import, Northfield excepted.

I was out the door on my way to buying an MT when I took one last look at the Mandolin Cafe website. Saw it and decided to save a thousand dollars. Never regretted it. Audy Ratliff"s Country Boy is in the same ballpark. Never played one though.
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Pono OP 30 D parlor
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Fluke tenor ukulele
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Old 04-19-2022, 06:34 PM
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Congratulations on the new mandolin!! Enjoy!!

I bought a Collings MT just about one year ago. I still tingle a little when I open the case. I have an Ibanez that I let interested visitors and grandchildren play/explore, and an SS Maxwell from the '30s that has an "old wood" sound that I like.

I am just now beginning to learn guitar. I've acquired a Yamaha Dynamic ('60s? '70s?) and an older parlor guitar of unknown parentage (but lovely tone) and then I have a Guild Marley. I don't play the Guild so much--I am by no means a small person, but my right shoulder has three rounds of surgery in its history and the smaller guitars are more comfortable. I expect I will sell the Guild and buy another parlor one of these days.
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Old 04-20-2022, 04:26 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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You bought the mandolin I'd recommend to someone with a lot of good instruments that wanted to buy a mandolin. Like want a good guitar? Buy a D 18. Mandolin? Buy an MT. Can't go wrong and if you decide you are a Gibson bluegrasser, you'll sell it in a heartbeat.

An MT can be a lifer for sure. It really is a slam dunk. I'd get tingles too.
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2007 Martin D 35 Custom
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1965 Epiphone Texan
2011 Santa Cruz D P/W
Pono OP 30 D parlor
Pono OP12-30
Pono MT uke
Goldtone Paul Beard squareneck resophonic
Fluke tenor ukulele
Boatload of home rolled telecasters

"Shut up and play ur guitar" Frank Zappa
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