Roger Clemens / Barry Bonds... HOF yay or nay?

[robj144]

Originally Posted by Dru Edwards

Alex Rodriguez is eligible for the HOF next year. He was a mess at the end, suing MLB and the Players Union as well. Probably a smart move to become a MLB analyst on tv... might help smooth out some of his past.

PEDs aside, ARod was an amazing player. When you think that Seattle had A-Rod and Griffey Jr at the same time, at least for 4 full seasons.

Arod is truly awful on TV too. Can't really stand the guy.

No for the HOF for him too.

[Dirk Hofman]

Truly don't care. Not like these two were the only cheaters. Not a fan of either, but there are plenty of 'roided up clowns in the HOF already, not to mention coke heads, which is illegal. Not sure why these two are any different.

I remember going to a Giants game when I moved to the bay area. Saw Bonds up close for the first time (don't really pay a ton of attention to baseball) and was laughing at how puffy and 'roided up he looked from my seats near him in the outfield. Anyone familiar with the effects of steroids knew what was up with him and many others long before it became a story. Comical.

[hairpuller]

Big NO from me.

Scott

[Jim Owen]

Originally Posted by ishtar

Roger Maris. He should get in the HOF for having to endure Ford Frick’s frikkin’ asterisk. Talk about a travesty.

To some folks, Maris may look like a journeyman who had a great season. But no one played in more World Series games in the decade of the Sixties. That’s worth something if I were voting.

[catdaddy]

Originally Posted by Jim Owen

To some folks, Maris may look like a journeyman who had a great season. But no one played in more World Series games in the decade of the Sixties. That’s worth something if I were voting.

Roger Maris was a terrific player who was unfortunately type cast by one remarkable season. He broke The Babe's' single season home run record and deserved full honors for that accomplishment. What a lot of folks don't realize or have forgotten is that in addition to the home run record and MVP awards he garnered in 1961, he also was The American League MVP and a gold glove winner the previous season in 1960. He wasn't just a slugger but a good all-around player, but by all accounts a guy who was uncomfortable in the media spotlight which was focused more intensely on him than any other player of his era in his home run record setting season. The fact that his career seemed to wane steadily after 1961, and ended after only 12 seasons may have more to do with Roger Maris' disenchantment with his celebrity status than his athletic ability. He's certainly more HOF eligible IMO than either Bonds or Clemens ever will be.

[roberts]

Maris was one of a handful of players who came to the Yanks through the KC pipeline (Hector Lopez and Bud Daley being among the others). He was a nice ballplayer - .260/23/70 - not a HOFer but solid across the board, esp. his arm. As a kid I used to sit in the corner during BP and watch him uncork everything on a fly to the plate. He shunned the Yankees after being traded to St Louis and stayed away until 1978, when he hoisted the World Series flag on opening day. The wound inflicted by NY will never fully heal.

[Street Glider]

Not until they induct Pete Rose...

[roberts]

Gonna have a long wait, my friend....

[Street Glider]

Originally Posted by Jim Owen

No to both. And keep Rose out. When he managed the Reds, he bet against his team. Mr. Giamatti banned him for good reason, and I accept his decision.

My reason for supporting Rose, and not people like Clemons and Bond, is because his transgression was off the field. You say he bet on his team to lose. Well, he also bet on them to win, too. Furthermore, many of the games on which he was betting they'd lose, they actually won.

For me it's real simple: Rose put up the stats he did without the aid of performance enhancing substances. The only reason Clemons and McGwire and Bond put up the stats they did was because of performance enhancing substances. For that reason, I support Rose being inducted long before those other guys are...

[Neil K Walk]

No to both. Baseball needs to change, but not like this. Cheating is cheating. Bonds transformation after he left Pittsburgh was too sudden and too dramatic to be natural.

[rmp]

Agree with the "nope to both"

also Arod, that man is a massive jerk.

[porchswingpickr]

Nope on both.

I hope to take my grandson to Cooperstown one day. I don't want to try to explain to him why Bonds holds the home run record because he cheated, was caught cheating and still was voted into the HOF. Meanwhile, Roger Maris is not recognized.

Backstories matter.

[Tele1111]

No to both.

As far as Pete Rose is concerned, those who are against his induction (due to his “betting” for or against his team) should probably learn more of the history of betting in baseball. It was a common practice among managers and owners pretty much from the inception of “organized” ball. Roses infractions threatened to shed light on that fact, (as did the Black Sox decades prior) and his total ban reflects that fear. Pete is a hard man to like. He’s a jerk, arrogant, misogynistic and conceited. He’s also one of the greatest baseball players of all time. I find the righteous indignation towards him….silly to be kind.

Mark

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by robj144

Arod is truly awful on TV too. Can't really stand the guy.

No for the HOF for him too.

I can't stand A-Rod. My lasting image of him is when he got in the skirmish with Jason Varitek going down the first base line. That was classic. I miss Varitek. He could really lead those pitchers from behind the plate.

[roberts]

Originally Posted by Tele1111

No to both.

As far as Pete Rose is concerned, those who are against his induction (due to his “betting” for or against his team) should probably learn more of the history of betting in baseball. It was a common practice among managers and owners pretty much from the inception of “organized” ball. Roses infractions threatened to shed light on that fact, (as did the Black Sox decades prior) and his total ban reflects that fear. Pete is a hard man to like. He’s a jerk, arrogant, misogynistic and conceited. He’s also one of the greatest baseball players of all time. I find the righteous indignation towards him….silly to be kind.

Mark

I wouldn't want to draw an equivalency between Rose and, say, John McGraw, who's in the Hall but was a suspected gambler on the game when he was active. You can make the case that McGraw should be out but this doesn't mean Rose should be in. Big difference between the emphasis on gambling in 1905, when players weren't paid regular salaries, and 1989....