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  #16  
Old 01-13-2019, 11:28 AM
muscmp muscmp is offline
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you'll get used to it. only time i notice any difference is with a 12 string. other than that, any guitar i play is just that, a guitar.

play music!
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  #17  
Old 01-13-2019, 11:39 AM
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Iíve been playing on and off for 40 years and I never noticed or cared a bit about nut width or saddle spacing until I FINALLY started learning to fingerpick a few months ago. Now I definitely notice and have a clear preference when Iím fingerpicking. The only things I noticed earlier in my playing years was action and string gauge (and sound, of course). With electric Iím much pickier about stuff like fretboard radius (nothing flatter than 9.5Ē on a Fender type neck, but 12Ē is fine on a Gibson type) and string spacing (narrower on Fender necks). But on acoustic, itís a recent thing to even care...
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  #18  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:03 PM
Duck916 Duck916 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemcg View Post
I wonder just how much difference this makes to a beginner? Yes there are definitely some measurements which will frustrate them (string height unplayable, small nut for big, beefy fingers) but in general I wonder if small differences like a 1 11/16 vs 1 3/4 nut makes a difference?

Iím thinking that these things will just lead to confusion for someone starting out.

I can say that for me (a beginner just about two years in), I cannot tell the difference between a 1 3/4 and 1 11/16ths nut. In fact, while I do notice a difference when switching from my 1 3/4 steel string to my 2 inch classical, after about 10 minutes the difference seems to fade away.

I think I'm just not consistent enough to identify a 1/16ths difference.
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  #19  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:18 PM
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Brucebubs Brucebubs is online now
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I can handle a .055 E string OK but .056 is too thick.
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  #20  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:25 PM
string1399 string1399 is offline
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Our fingers are so sensitive!

You're telling me! I told them they were rushing the tempo, and they shot back "Who's fault is that???"
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  #21  
Old 01-13-2019, 04:51 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemcg View Post
I wonder just how much difference this makes to a beginner? Yes, there are definitely some measurements which will frustrate them (string height unplayable, small nut for big, beefy fingers) but in general I wonder if small differences like a 1 11/16 vs. 1 3/4 nut make a difference?.
Although I've consistently seen otherwise in both my personal and teaching experience, the idea of a 1-3/4" fingerboard for beginners is far from new - FYI Epiphone marketed their circa-1955 Harry Volpe entry-level electric jazzbox (the very last new design to come out of the New York factory) with specific references to the ease of fingering afforded by the wider board. Similarly, as pickstyle virtuosity came into its own in the early/mid-1930's there was a move among some progressive makers to narrower fingerboards and slimmer neck profiles: while Gibson's 1-11/16" would emerge as the de facto standard until the late '50s, it's a little-known fact that Martin (the touchstone for the whole "1-3/4 or death" movement) was fitting their F-Series archtops with 1-5/8" necks, and more than a few upscale late-30's New York Epis left the factory at 1-9/16" - a specification that would not be revisited in their regular-production instruments for another quarter-century, during the Kalamazoo period. I came up in the early-60's on those ~1-5/8" Fender/Gibson speed necks, and while I own acoustic and electric instruments with various profiles/widths I'm still most comfortable (and a heckuva lot faster) on the narrower profile; frankly, it's a shame most of those mid-60's Fender acoustics sounded like total garbage, or I'd own a roomful of them - and I also suspect that, had the flattop acoustics of the 1955-1995 period been made to a standard of quality comparable to their prewar counterparts, there'd be a whole bunch of AGF'ers tripping over themselves for one of those "fast/easy-playing/comfortable" necks...

Of course, you could always score a pre-NT Taylor while they're still relatively affordable...
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  #22  
Old 01-13-2019, 05:31 PM
stringjunky2 stringjunky2 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
Although I've consistently seen otherwise in both my personal and teaching experience, the idea of a 1-3/4" fingerboard for beginners is far from new - FYI Epiphone marketed their circa-1955 Harry Volpe entry-level electric jazzbox (the very last new design to come out of the New York factory) with specific references to the ease of fingering afforded by the wider board. Similarly, as pickstyle virtuosity came into its own in the early/mid-1930's there was a move among some progressive makers to narrower fingerboards and slimmer neck profiles: while Gibson's 1-11/16" would emerge as the de facto standard until the late '50s, it's a little-known fact that Martin (the touchstone for the whole "1-3/4 or death" movement) was fitting their F-Series archtops with 1-5/8" necks, and more than a few upscale late-30's New York Epis left the factory at 1-9/16" - a specification that would not be revisited in their regular-production instruments for another quarter-century, during the Kalamazoo period. I came up in the early-60's on those ~1-5/8" Fender/Gibson speed necks, and while I own acoustic and electric instruments with various profiles/widths I'm still most comfortable (and a heckuva lot faster) on the narrower profile; frankly, it's a shame most of those mid-60's Fender acoustics sounded like total garbage, or I'd own a roomful of them - and I also suspect that, had the flattop acoustics of the 1955-1995 period been made to a standard of quality comparable to their prewar counterparts, there'd be a whole bunch of AGF'ers tripping over themselves for one of those "fast/easy-playing/comfortable" necks...

Of course, you could always score a pre-NT Taylor while they're still relatively affordable...
I think "Fat Finger Syndrome" is mostly experienced by beginners because they tend to fret too hard and death-grip the neck. I noticed this in myself. Ten years ago I wanted a wider neck but now, with my next guitar, it's not high on my list of wants because I am much lighter on the fretboard, so my tips take up less room.
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  #23  
Old 01-13-2019, 06:09 PM
Wistah Wistah is offline
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It's getting to the point where I don't play my 1 11/16 guitars any more (Martin and Taylor), even though they sound great and are perfect otherwise. Yet I can play narrow nut electric guitars no problem. Weird.
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  #24  
Old 01-13-2019, 07:40 PM
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Hey, the difference between Gold medal and Silver medal in swimming can be 1/100th of a second. I get annoyed when people say small measurements can't be significant. Obviously it varies with everyone.
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  #25  
Old 01-13-2019, 08:33 PM
J. Scott J. Scott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodallboy View Post
Thank you. Like you, these small differences donít matter to me at all. Additionally, when you throw in string tension as an issue with some, Iím speechless.

We need all kinds now donít we?
Or run out and neck dive. Learn to play the instrument, be creative, donít be pedantic. Wash, rinse and repeat.....soon you make MUSIC. If I recall correctly that is the point of this whole guitar thing. Not intended to offend, just my opinion.
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  #26  
Old 01-13-2019, 08:54 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raysachs View Post
I’ve been playing on and off for 40 years and I never noticed or cared a bit about nut width or saddle spacing until I FINALLY started learning to fingerpick a few months ago. Now I definitely notice and have a clear preference when I’m fingerpicking...
There you go.

For those of you who don't notice or need the difference, God bless you.
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  #27  
Old 01-13-2019, 09:06 PM
bufflehead bufflehead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wistah View Post
It's getting to the point where I don't play my 1 11/16 guitars any more (Martin and Taylor), even though they sound great and are perfect otherwise. Yet I can play narrow nut electric guitars no problem. Weird.
Agreed. That actually is weird. But not uncommon, I should think.
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  #28  
Old 01-13-2019, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis Webb View Post
Absolutely. My 1.8 inch Seagull is vastly different than my ordinary spaced J45. Like 2 different instruments.......
Uh......... because they are two different instruments.......
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  #29  
Old 01-14-2019, 05:33 AM
Rpt50 Rpt50 is offline
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Psychologists who study sensory systems have the concept of a "JND" (just noticeable difference), and it is true that in some cases our sensory systems are capable of rather extraordinary discriminations (e.g. pitch in the frequency range of speech, tactile discrimination in certain body regions--recall the "homonculus" drawings you may have seen in a psychology book). However, just because we can make these discriminations does not mean they are important in performance. My suspicion, like others above have suggested, would be that experienced guitarists would quickly adapt, even if they did notice the difference. I would not be surprised if someone has already published work on this topic, but I am not familiar with it.
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  #30  
Old 01-14-2019, 05:46 AM
AndrewG AndrewG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis Webb View Post
Well, I disagree. I hated my first guitar because the action was too high and I knew nothing about setups for the first 30 years of playing. I only learned about setups when I joined AGF. A bad setup can discourage new players, a lot.
I was referring to things like nut widths; I absolutely agree with you about poor setups though.
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