Falcon sighting in Brooklyn - and it's a beauty!!

[Johnny K]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

I try to avoid Manhattan as much as possible these days for a variety of reasons so I've yet to make it to Rivington, Ludlow, Carmine Street Guitars (Matt Umanov's first independent shop in the '70s, BTW), Rudy's Broome Street, or the 14th Street GC (just down the block from the old Epiphone factory at 142 West 14th, if you're looking for some additional NYC guitar history). That said, as an ex-Brooklyn boy from back in the day I've probably played several hundred original Brooklyn Gretsch instruments and seen a whole bunch more than that, without exaggeration - they were our hometown guitar maker (my grandparents lived three blocks from the factory and just down the street from the drum warehouse), if you lived in that time and place your first "good" electric was a Gretsch period, and again without exaggeration if it was made between 1960-1967 (before the Baldwin takeover) and spent its life in the NYC area, chances are good that I've either seen it in person or played it at one time or another...

Unfortunately if you're doing the 5-Boro (one of my former colleagues and my ex-supervisor ride every year BTW) it'll be impossible to detour, so you'll need to seek it out on your own time. The 1916 factory building is located at 60 Broadway (between Berry St. and Wythe Ave. - which was part of the 2018 route) in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn and, other than condos, is occupied by a Sherwin-Williams paint store, a martial-arts studio, and - wait for it - Gretsch Cleaners (I wouldn't trust them with my White Falcon FWIW ); the former drum warehouse at 109 South 5th Street (about three blocks from the factory, between Bedford Ave. and Berry St., and the site of Friedrich Gretsch's first factory TMK) is now a multi-purpose commercial building housing a clothing boutique, employment agency, and Car2Go branch office, among others. As it's changed significantly over the last six decades - arguably for the better, certainly for the infinitely-more-expensive - the neighborhood's former industrial/blue-collar/multi-ethnic (German/East-European/Hasidic/Latino) character I knew as a kid has been largely lost and, unlike many areas of Manhattan that still maintain their working-class heritage in the preserved signs painted on the sides of former commercial buildings, there is very little if anything to inform the casual visitor of what once was (FYI the former Schaefer brewery, Brooklyn's last full-scale commercial brewer, and Domino Sugar refinery - both within walking/biking distance of the Gretsch buildings - are also going/have gone condo); then again I have a thirtyish former colleague who lives not too far north, and if you're of a three-steps-ahead-of-the-cutting-edge hipster mindset the "new" Williamsburg may just be to your liking...

Steve, thanks for the time you spent on this post. I'm not sure why, but I love all thing Gretsch and your tales are an inspiration to me. I will take the time on my own to explore the area when i'm up there in May 2019. I'll probably stop at Rivington again and if they still have the '63 6120DC on the wall, its coming home with me.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Johnny K

Steve, thanks for the time you spent on this post. I'm not sure why, but I love all thing Gretsch and your tales are an inspiration to me. I will take the time on my own to explore the area when i'm up there in May 2019. I'll probably stop at Rivington again and if they still have the '63 6120DC on the wall, it's coming home with me.

Thanks Johnny, but IME if you're serious about a double-cut 6120 as a working instrument rather than a collectible, you'd be better served seeking out one of the reissues from several years back; I've been playing Gretsch instruments all my life - when they're good they're second to none and, as I'm sure you're well aware, nothing else sounds like a Gretsch but a Gretsch - but when they're bad, just hang on and get ready for the headaches: deteriorating binding (I have this on the '64 Double Annie I bought brand-new as a kid - gonna cost me a good few hundred to have redone), bad necksets and/or neck movement (see that little black dot on the neck heel of the old Brooklyn hollowbodies - that's a screw to hold the neck in place), iffy electronics (had my Double Annie gutted and rewired under warranty in late '66, replaced the pickups in the early-80's), poor intonation (those original Space-Control bridges are a nightmare - you'll want one of the aluminum "Sorkin" Bigsby bridges with the pre-intonated top like a '40s Gibson archtop), just to mention a few. I've played a good number of the current models, own two (a '16 E-Matic 5622T-CB 3-PU/cats' eye semi and a '13 6136DC '62-style White Falcon - the predecessor to the guitar featured in the OP), and I'll say without hesitation that the Korean and Japanese instruments of the last decade are easily some of the finest ever to wear the Gretsch marque, hands down; FWIW if you're a persistent shopper I'm almost certain that there's at least one NOS 6120 double-cut from the early-2010's still out there - I scored my White Falcon in early June (it's been discontinued for nearly five years), and TMK the double cut 6120 was even less popular (FYI it was a couple hundred more expensive than the '62 Country Gent RI at the time) so your chances may well be better...

Absent that, Sweetwater has a near-exact Korean-made E-Matic version (real f-holes, no muffler/backpad) listed for $899 last I checked; as I said the MIK guitars give away nothing in terms of either tone or playability, and IME their QC is every bit the equal - and more often the superior - of any similar US-made double-cut with the big G-brand on the headstock . FYI I'm completely satisfied with mine - one of only three guitars I've owned in the last 56 years that needed no setup whatsoever (one of the others being the White Falcon), and it's my go-to gig hollow - and while there's a certain "cool factor" to the vintage stuff (when it works...) and a smidge more attention to detail in the MIJ Professional Series, this is one of the very rare cases where I can say in all truth that less may well be more...

[Johnny K]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Thanks Johnny, but IME if you're serious about a double-cut 6120 as a working instrument rather than a collectible, you'd be better served seeking out one of the reissues from several years back; I've been playing Gretsch instruments all my life - when they're good they're second to none and, as I'm sure you're well aware, nothing else sounds like a Gretsch but a Gretsch - but when they're bad, just hang on and get ready for the headaches: deteriorating binding (I have this on the '64 Double Annie I bought brand-new as a kid - gonna cost me a good few hundred to have redone), bad necksets and/or neck movement (see that little black dot on the neck heel of the old Brooklyn hollowbodies - that's a screw to hold the neck in place), iffy electronics (had my Double Annie gutted and rewired under warranty in late '66, replaced the pickups in the early-80's), poor intonation (those original Space-Control bridges are a nightmare - you'll want one of the aluminum "Sorkin" Bigsby bridges with the pre-intonated top like a '40s Gibson archtop), just to mention a few. I've played a good number of the current models, own two (a '16 E-Matic 5622T-CB 3-PU/cats' eye semi and a '13 6136DC '62-style White Falcon - the predecessor to the guitar featured in the OP), and I'll say without hesitation that the Korean and Japanese instruments of the last decade are easily some of the finest ever to wear the Gretsch marque, hands down; FWIW if you're a persistent shopper I'm almost certain that there's at least one NOS 6120 double-cut from the early-2010's still out there - I scored my White Falcon in early June (it's been discontinued for nearly five years), and TMK the double cut 6120 was even less popular (FYI it was a couple hundred more expensive than the '62 Country Gent RI at the time) so your chances may well be better...

Absent that, Sweetwater has a near-exact Korean-made E-Matic version (real f-holes, no muffler/backpad) listed for $899 last I checked; as I said the MIK guitars give away nothing in terms of either tone or playability, and IME their QC is every bit the equal - and more often the superior - of any similar US-made double-cut with the big G-brand on the headstock . FYI I'm completely satisfied with mine - one of only three guitars I've owned in the last 56 years that needed no setup whatsoever (one of the others being the White Falcon), and it's my go-to gig hollow - and while there's a certain "cool factor" to the vintage stuff (when it works...) and a smidge more attention to detail in the MIJ Professional Series, this is one of the very rare cases where I can say in all truth that less may well be more...

That purchase would be a collector move.

I played a bunch of the MIKs at the local GC and it's a tough choice. I thought I wanted a big body 6120 clone but I think I like the thinner 5422T better. They had one in Lake Placid blue and its pretty nice. We'll see...

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Johnny K

...I played a bunch of the MIKs at the local GC and it's a tough choice. I thought I wanted a big body 6120 clone but I think I like the thinner 5422T better...

Just to muddy the waters a bit, you might find this of interest - if you've ever watched CSNY and wished you could have one of those single-cut Falcons:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...lectric-guitar

If you like the classic Gretsch double-cut vibe but need more versatility:

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Gretsch...tric-Guitar.gc

I have the identical guitar in red and it's my go-to gig instrument - capable of every Gretsch tone you ever heard as well as a bunch you're not going to get with anything else; be advised that it's heavy - think some of the heavier early/mid-70's ES-335/345/355 semis - so you'll need a wide strap (forget those '50s-style skinny straps that look so cool on every other Gretsch). It's also a discontinued model - apparently GC bought up the remaining warehouse stock - so if you're interested you might want to reserve yours while the getting is good...

Conversely, if weight/size are a primary consideration FYI not every classic Gretsch tone was produced by a hollowbody, and if you're going to spring for a 5422 one of these - which has an exceedingly interesting, if somewhat apocryphal, history (see below) - might be a good addition to your stable:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...lectric-guitar

Some Gretsch lore and trivia: After her divorce from Les Paul became final in 1963 (I was fortunate enough to see their last TV appearance as a kid, in 1962) Mary Ford was attempting to jumpstart both a solo career and an endorsement deal of her own with Gretsch. It has been rumored that the short-lived (and now uber-rare) "Princess" pastel-colored solidbodies based on the '63 Corvette platform (vaguely resembling the contemporary - and strong-selling - single-pickup SG/Les Paul Junior, and sold with matching white case and amplifier) were in fact intended to be the first "Mary Ford" instruments, to be joined by similarly-colored Duo-Jet-based "Standards" and a double-cutaway White Penguin-based "Custom" model. Production of the Princess ceased by '64 when the deal fell through - no instruments of this type were ever produced under the Mary Ford designation - and while similarly-colored double-cut Duo-Jet "Standard" prototypes are said to exist - possibly as a single example, almost certainly no more than four or five - as well as her personal double-cut Penguin that was to be the platform for the "Custom," only the Corvette-based Princess "Junior" model saw the light of day. For those who are curious about what might have been the aforementioned FSR Electromatic, in Surf Green with white back/pickguard/trussrod cover and gold Filter'trons/hardware, is probably a 90% accurate representation of what the Mary Ford Standard might have looked like - under Les' tutelage Mary became a formidable guitarist in her own right, and it undoubtedly would have been equipped with some proprietary cutting-edge electronic gadgetry garnered from their time together (which Les himself was extremely reluctant to license for mass production until circa 1970, with the Les Paul Professional/Personal/Triumph Bass models) ...

To add some fuel to the fire - and credibility to the story - Ken Achard's History and Development of the American Guitar shows a documented prototype of a double-cutaway Les Paul Standard produced circa 1962 by Epiphone, when they were under Gibson management and using the same methods/materials. Les Paul - who had complained long and loud about the SG version that would bear his name until early '63 (when he suspended his endorsement deal amid his divorce proceedings) - performed many of his first experiments with solidbody design on Epiphone guitars, and this may have been an attempt to appease him with a more "modern" appearing instrument while still keeping him in the corporate camp; suffice it to say that the body shape is nearly indistinguishable from the contemporary double-cutaway Duo-Jet - the same one that would have been used for the Mary Ford Standard/Custom - and if push came to shove it could have been a very interesting state of affairs...

[Johnny K]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Just to muddy the waters a bit, you might find this of interest - if you've ever watched CSNY and wished you could have one of those single-cut Falcons:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...lectric-guitar

If you like the classic Gretsch double-cut vibe but need more versatility:

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Gretsch...tric-Guitar.gc

I have the identical guitar in red and it's my go-to gig instrument - capable of every Gretsch tone you ever heard as well as a bunch you're not going to get with anything else; be advised that it's heavy - think some of the heavier early/mid-70's ES-335/345/355 semis - so you'll need a wide strap (forget those '50s-style skinny straps that look so cool on every other Gretsch). It's also a discontinued model - apparently GC bought up the remaining warehouse stock - so if you're interested you might want to reserve yours while the getting is good...

Conversely, if weight/size are a primary consideration FYI not every classic Gretsch tone was produced by a hollowbody, and if you're going to spring for a 5422 one of these - which has an exceedingly interesting, if somewhat apocryphal, history (see below) - might be a good addition to your stable:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...lectric-guitar

Some Gretsch lore and trivia: After her divorce from Les Paul became final in 1963 (I was fortunate enough to see their last TV appearance as a kid, in 1962) Mary Ford was attempting to jumpstart both a solo career and an endorsement deal of her own with Gretsch. It has been rumored that the short-lived (and now uber-rare) "Princess" pastel-colored solidbodies based on the '63 Corvette platform (vaguely resembling the contemporary - and strong-selling - single-pickup SG/Les Paul Junior, and sold with matching white case and amplifier) were in fact intended to be the first "Mary Ford" instruments, to be joined by similarly-colored Duo-Jet-based "Standards" and a double-cutaway White Penguin-based "Custom" model. Production of the Princess ceased by '64 when the deal fell through - no instruments of this type were ever produced under the Mary Ford designation - and while similarly-colored double-cut Duo-Jet "Standard" prototypes are said to exist - possibly as a single example, almost certainly no more than four or five - as well as her personal double-cut Penguin that was to be the platform for the "Custom," only the Corvette-based Princess "Junior" model saw the light of day. For those who are curious about what might have been the aforementioned FSR Electromatic, in Surf Green with white back/pickguard/trussrod cover and gold Filter'trons/hardware, is probably a 90% accurate representation of what the Mary Ford Standard might have looked like - under Les' tutelage Mary became a formidable guitarist in her own right, and it undoubtedly would have been equipped with some proprietary cutting-edge electronic gadgetry garnered from their time together (which Les himself was extremely reluctant to license for mass production until circa 1970, with the Les Paul Professional/Personal/Triumph Bass models) ...

To add some fuel to the fire - and credibility to the story - Ken Achard's History and Development of the American Guitar shows a documented prototype of a double-cutaway Les Paul Standard produced circa 1962 by Epiphone, when they were under Gibson management and using the same methods/materials. Les Paul - who had complained long and loud about the SG version that would bear his name until early '63 (when he suspended his endorsement deal amid his divorce proceedings) - performed many of his first experiments with solidbody design on Epiphone guitars, and this may have been an attempt to appease him with a more "modern" appearing instrument while still keeping him in the corporate camp; suffice it to say that the body shape is nearly indistinguishable from the contemporary double-cutaway Duo-Jet - the same one that would have been used for the Mary Ford Standard/Custom - and if push came to shove it could have been a very interesting state of affairs...

Which one will let me sound like Jim Heath?

[Steve DeRosa]

None of them, any more than my Double Annie made me sound like Brian Jones or my White Falcon makes me sound like Stephen Stills - you'll sound exactly like you (IME Gretsch does a better job of that than Fender or Gibson), and in my book that's a good thing...

[Johnny K]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

None of them, any more than my Double Annie made me sound like Brian Jones or my White Falcon makes me sound like Stephen Stills - you'll sound exactly like you (IME Gretsch does a better job of that than Fender or Gibson), and in my book that's a good thing...

I know right? LOL

I stopped by a local used emporium and they had am original 60's era Country Gentleman. (The George Harrision guitar). It's was in rough shape, but not terrible; it would make nice wall art, but I didn't like it. The tuners were loose, It wouldn't stay in tune, action was too low (if that is a thing) and the fret board and neck felt wrong in my hands and fingers. On the plus side all the electronics worked and it still had a functioning mute even if all the gold anodizing had mostly worn off, but it was not a player. Needs work. A lot. The price offered to me reflected it, $1100. But I couldn't see spending that on something i wouldn't play and sink more money into.

The MIK that they had, a wine red with gold hardware single cut thin body played and sounded better. My only gripe is the Bigsby on it was very very stiff. I didn't buy it either.

The store had two vintage Tennesseans but I suspect they are the same as CG's.

I'm going to try the big body Gretsch's next.

I'm sure I'll find something I like.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Johnny K

...The MIK that they had, a wine red with gold hardware single cut thin body played and sounded better. My only gripe is the Bigsby on it was very very stiff. I didn't buy it either...

$10 fixes your problem:

http://store.reverendguitars.com/pro...-touch-spring/

You can thank me when you buy your new Gretsch...

[Johnny K]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

$10 fixes your problem:

http://store.reverendguitars.com/pro...-touch-spring/

You can thank me when you buy your new Gretsch...

I take it back it was double cut. The G5422TG. This one, but the one in the video. The one think that was done to it was the PO installed locking tuners. Everything I see online is open back tuners. is Is that a good thing or bad thing? They are gold like the rest of the hardware.

https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/rev...romatic-guitar

And I will. They have it used at 699.00 I see they go for 849 new at GC. I can probably get them down close to 600 bucks on it. My wife knitted the store owner a pair of socks. He owes me. LOL

EDIT: I told my wife to go pick it up. I guess I own a Gretsch now.

[Johnny K]

And here it is. It’s a 2015. G5422TG in walnut stain. Plays and sounds great. I think they worked it since Monday. The setup and intonation are spot on. Unfortunately the new strings are on wrong. And it does have aftermarket locking tuners. There are holes visable where the open gear tuners used to be. They are some brand labeled Hipshot.



I’ll make a NGD post later and add some sound clips.


And finally, thank you Steve. I wouldn’t have done it with out your endorsement of the quality if the MIK Gretsches

[The Growler]

Very nice! Looks great. That's my favorite color for a Gretsch.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Johnny K

And here it is. It’s a 2015. G5422TG in walnut stain. Plays and sounds great. I think they worked it since Monday. The setup and intonation are spot on. Unfortunately the new strings are on wrong. And it does have aftermarket locking tuners. There are holes visible where the open gear tuners used to be. They are some brand labeled Hipshot.



I’ll make a NGD post later and add some sound clips.

And finally, thank you Steve. I wouldn’t have done it with out your endorsement of the quality if the MIK Gretsches

My pleasure, Johnny - a few final points:

• Sweet guitar, and I've seen several local Beatles-tribute bands using them as their "George" guitar (crank it through an AC30 at stage volume and you'll be hard-pressed to tell the difference); FWIW I literally came within inches of buying the white version on one of our band's shopping trips back in June, with the intention of converting it into a White Falcon near-clone (pickguard, truss rod cover, "Cadillac" tailpiece, ruby-jewel knobs, '60s-style PU covers) - found my Falcon a couple days later and the rest is history;
• Hipshot is good stuff - although not too well-known/popular among guitarists they've got an excellent rep among bass players for their tuners and bridges; if you plan to really work that Bigsby they might not be such a bad idea - and you could always have your tech fill the holes;
• If you're not familiar with Gretsch be advised that the current 16" hollowbodies (along with the '62 Country Gent 17" double-cut and its vintage Brooklyn counterpart) as well as the solids have a 24.6" scale (some of the vintage instruments used 24-1/2"), and IME you'll need to think in terms of a heavier string if you want to get the most out of your instrument; while I use flatwound 11's on my 25-1/2" scale White Falcon solely as a concession to age, my 5622T-CB and original '64 Double Annie are both strung with 12's (flats on the '64 since day one, flats or half-rounds on the 5622 depending on the gig) - FYI 11's are factory issue on your 5422, and staying with these (or moving up to 12's - I'd recommend a wound G in either case) will let you get some woody warmth into your tone, alongside the characteristic Gretsch twang and chime;
• Don't know if you're a one-amp kinda guy and I can't tell from the pic whether that's a 4x10" or 2x12" DeVille, but with 56 years of experience under my increasingly-ample belt I can say that these guitars are absolute magic through a nice tube amp, highly responsive to combinations of tone stack/tubes/speaker(s) in a way that Gibsons/Fenders are not; bring it along to some music stores and try it through different combinations - 1x8"/1x10" low-power combos, 1x12" (my go-to gig amp is a "blue-light" first-series Bugera V22), 2x10", 1x15" (I've heard the old Fender Excelsior or Peavey Delta Blues are a good match for Gretsch instruments if you like a more Gibson-like low end without losing the characteristic upper-mid response), smaller head/cab rigs - and I have a feeling that you may just be adding a new amp to your stable...

Best of luck, Johnny - use it well, often, and LOUD...

[Johnny K]

Thank you Steve.

I wonder the G in TG stands for "George"

I'm not too concerned about the locking tuners anymore. I plan to play a lot of stuff in the style of The Rev Horton Heat, and his signature 6120 is spec'd with locking tuners. That factory wigglestick is gonna get a lot of workout. I orded the Reverend Guitars replacement spring for it. And for $599 out the door with the Gretsch case, Its not a big deal. I'm a little disappointed the PO didn't keep the original tuners in the case. But I can get a set from Gretsch.

It has D'Addarrio 11's on it and I may put some flatwound 11's on it as I plan to play a lot of open tunings and slide with it. The shop threw in a pack of D'Addarrio 11 gauge Nickle wounds. I may put those on my Tele instead.

I am a three Amp kinda guy, but the DeVille is my only tube amp right now. I like the Bugera V22. I played a couple of Gretschs at GC thru one it was a nice sounding amp. And it probably doesn't need freaking casters on it like my DeVille 410. The 410 is only slightly less of a beast than the Twin Reverb I got rid of a while back. And I'm thinking of adding a Fender extension cabinet. FWIW, I want another Twin Reverb.

It sounded great thru my 410 with a Boss DD3 delay pedal and reverb on 5. I have a Rocktron Short Timer delay, Boss CS3 Compressor/Sustainer and my trusty old Morely Wah I want to run it thru.

[Steel and wood]

Originally Posted by Johnny K

Thank you Steve.

I wonder the G in TG stands for "George"

I'm not too concerned about the locking tuners anymore. I plan to play a lot of stuff in the style of The Rev Horton Heat, and his signature 6120 is spec'd with locking tuners. That factory wigglestick is gonna get a lot of workout. I orded the Reverend Guitars replacement spring for it. And for $599 out the door with the Gretsch case, Its not a big deal. I'm a little disappointed the PO didn't keep the original tuners in the case. But I can get a set from Gretsch.

It has D'Addarrio 11's on it and I may put some flatwound 11's on it as I plan to play a lot of open tunings and slide with it. The shop threw in a pack of D'Addarrio 11 gauge Nickle wounds. I may put those on my Tele instead.

I am a three Amp kinda guy, but the DeVille is my only tube amp right now. I like the Bugera V22. I played a couple of Gretschs at GC thru one it was a nice sounding amp. And it probably doesn't need freaking casters on it like my DeVille 410. The 410 is only slightly less of a beast than the Twin Reverb I got rid of a while back. And I'm thinking of adding a Fender extension cabinet. FWIW, I want another Twin Reverb.

It sounded great thru my 410 with a Boss DD3 delay pedal and reverb on 5. I have a Rocktron Short Timer delay, Boss CS3 Compressor/Sustainer and my trusty old Morely Wah I want to run it thru.

Bonus if she plays anywhere near as good as she looks.

[Ludere]

Steve,

I spotted this one a little while ago and while I have no business even looking at a git of this caliber ... it sure is a beauty ...

Thanks for sharing.

~ Paul

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