What are some good small mics to pickup guitar tone and handling on the body?

[Monk of Funk]

I really like the way Tommy Emmanuel's mic picks up all his handling of the guitar so well. Rubbing on the body, tapping it, and all that sort of stuff, and it does it in such a nice non terribly boomy way.

I've heard him say he uses a cheap radio shack mic that only costs like 60$. Does anyone know what mic that is, or has anyone had any luck getting similar sound from an internal mic like that?

I know he mixes in some of his bridge pickup, but I'm only really interested in the microphone component, both for the tone, but also very much for the percussive handling on the body. It doesn't need to be the same signal chain Tommy uses, but anything similar to get great body sound. I know I've seen a guy on YouTube play some beethoven and stuff like that, and he has a lav mic taped to the body of his guitar. Something like that might be interesting also.

As long as it's a small mic, and picks up handling of the body of the guitar.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Monk of Funk

I really like the way Tommy Emmanuel's mic picks up all his handling of the guitar so well. Rubbing on the body, tapping it, and all that sort of stuff, and it does it in such a nice non terribly boomy way.

I've heard him say he uses a cheap radio shack mic that only costs like 60$. Does anyone know what mic that is, or has anyone had any luck getting similar sound from an internal mic like that?

I know he mixes in some of his bridge pickup, but I'm only really interested in the microphone component, both for the tone, but also very much for the percussive handling on the body. It doesn't need to be the same signal chain Tommy uses, but anything similar to get great body sound. I know I've seen a guy on YouTube play some beethoven and stuff like that, and he has a lav mic taped to the body of his guitar. Something like that might be interesting also.

As long as it's a small mic, and picks up handling of the body of the guitar.

Pretty sure it's just the mic that's part of the Maton pickup system. Usually it's the palathetic, Takamine style bridge pickup and an internal mic.

[Doug Young]

There are plenty of small mics that will work as internal mics. The k&k silver bullet is one. I use either a dpa 4061 or an audix L5O. As far as i know, Tommy’s mic is the one that comes with his Maton pickup system. Some people do use a radio shack lapel mic, tho i dont think the one people have reported using has been made in ages. Radio shack only barely exists at this point.

[Monk of Funk]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

There are plenty of small mics that will work as internal mics. The k&k silver bullet is one. I use either a dpa 4061 or an audix L5O. As far as i know, Tommy’s mic is the one that comes with his Maton pickup system. Some people do use a radio shack lapel mic, tho i dont think the one people have reported using has been made in ages. Radio shack only barely exists at this point.

Thanks I'll check those out. Ya, I think Maton guitars must use the Radioshack mic Tommy was talking about after all the research he did to find the best one, and it turns out it was just a cheap 60$ radioshack lapel mic that worked the best for him. But I can't seem to find it or any reference to which model it would be to find a used version or anything like that.

What is it you like about the dpa 4061 or audix L50?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Monk of Funk

Thanks I'll check those out. Ya, I think Maton guitars must use the Radioshack mic Tommy was talking about after all the research he did to find the best one, and it turns out it was just a cheap 60$ radioshack lapel mic that worked the best for him. But I can't seem to find it or any reference to which model it would be to find a used version or anything like that.

What is it you like about the dpa 4061 or audix L50?

Id be surprised if Maton, kind of the Taylor guitars of Australia, bought their parts at Radio Shack, but who knows? You can hear a sample with the radio shack lapel mic on my pickup page. It sounds pretty good as I recall, but that’s because even a cheap mic beats any pickup for sound quality in that type of test. Doesn’t necessarily mean it would win live.

The dpa and audix mics are small, easy to mount, and relatively easy to work with - the audix more so than the dpa, which has very fine wires. Both are quality mics. The dpas are what you typically see broadway shows using for sound. I’ve tried lots of mics over the years, always blended with something else. Nearly anything can work to add some air and realism to a pickup, but I’ve liked the sound of these.

[Monk of Funk]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Id be surprised if Maton, kind of the Taylor guitars of Australia, bought their parts at Radio Shack, but who knows?

I saw a video where Tommy Emmanuel talked about trying tons of mics, even all the super expensive ones, and how he thought that radio shack one was the best. He didn't explicitly say so, but it seemed to me like he was doing research for Maton so they could build him his perfect guitar. It's surprising his favourite was a cheap 60$ mic from radioshack, no question, but if that's his favourite, it does the job, and is real cheap, then I don't see why Maton wouldn't use it.

You can hear a sample with the radio shack lapel mic on my pickup page. It sounds pretty good as I recall, but that’s because even a cheap mic beats any pickup for sound quality in that type of test. Doesn’t necessarily mean it would win live.

The dpa and audix mics are small, easy to mount, and relatively easy to work with - the audix more so than the dpa, which has very fine wires. Both are quality mics. The dpas are what you typically see broadway shows using for sound. I’ve tried lots of mics over the years, always blended with something else. Nearly anything can work to add some air and realism to a pickup, but I’ve liked the sound of these.

Cool, ya, that radio shack mic did sound quite good. A little muddy in the lower mids, but combined with a pickup that might not matter. The fullness and air of a mic is something I do want to add to my pickup system, but, I also really want to pickup all the handling on the body real well also. Is that guitar a indian rosewood body? I'm not fully sure that's the mic Tommy was talking about. He said the mic he liked was 60$. They don't seem to sell anymore lapel mics according to their website unfortunately. Otherwise for 20$, I'd definitely give it a try.

It's cool how you have all those samples on your website. A bit of a shame the pickups were often mixed in and it wasn't always the same guitar, (sometimes necessary like in the case of the Maton) but still very cool, and cool you took the time to talk about placement or whatever also.

[Doug Young]

Those pickup tests are just what they are - a random collection of examples. Friends guitars, etc. the idea of trying to be more rigorous has come up - same guitar for everything has been tossed around, but it really cant be done, since many pickups are proprietary: taylor, martin, takamini, maton, on and on.

Not sure what you mean about pickups being mixed in. The point was to demo pickups. Where a dual source pickup offered stereo out, i tried to record each separately, but many dont support that.

As far as the tone of the mic, I've never heard any mic sound good inside the guitar without significant EQ. The inside of a guitar is not a good place for a mic. The usual approach is to cut lows and low mids substantially, and just let the mic handle the highs, adding air to some pickup.

[Monk of Funk]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Those pickup tests are just what they are - a random collection of examples. Friends guitars, etc. the idea of trying to be more rigorous has come up - same guitar for everything has been tossed around, but it really cant be done, since many pickups are proprietary: taylor, martin, takamini, maton, on and on.

Not sure what you mean about pickups being mixed in. The point was to demo pickups. Where a dual source pickup offered stereo out, i tried to record each separately, but many dont support that.

As far as the tone of the mic, I've never heard any mic sound good inside the guitar without significant EQ. The inside of a guitar is not a good place for a mic. The usual approach is to cut lows and low mids substantially, and just let the mic handle the highs, adding air to some pickup.

I mean that it looks like you tested some of the mic "pickups" with the piezo pickups mixed in.

Tommy's mic is for sure inside the body of the guitar. He says he sometimes gets issues with feedback in some venues which requires moving it around a little, but it always works out in the end. Pretty sure he must always have his soundhole cover over top of it at the same time. He often maxes out the gain for the mic and also for the pickup. It's the mic that really gives him all of that volume for his handling of the guitar, so he gets the taps, and when he likes to rub on the body as well, for that sort of shaker, shuffle vibe he gets, especially now he wore the finish off his guitar lol.

I'm not sure how he EQs the mic and pickup, but, I'm not sure the maton has independent EQ settings like that, does it? I would have guessed there is one set of EQ for both, and other than that, it's just gain for each separately. That might be why he spent so much time testing the mics, he really needed to find one that had it's own character like it was EQ'd to work well in that situation with the bridge pickup or whatever system Maton has for the sort of piezo style.

[Doug Young]

Many dual source systems with mics have no way to hear just the mic. Some do, others dont. But in general, its like ordering a seasoned steak and wanting to taste the seasoning without the steak. The maton system may include builtin eq for the mic, i dont know. The baggs Anthem and s an example, where they remove everything below 250hz from their mic.

Is there a link where Tommy talks about all this stuff?

[Monk of Funk]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Many dual source systems with mics have no way to hear just the mic. Some do, others dont. But in general, its like ordering a seasoned steak and wanting to taste the seasoning without the steak. The maton system may include builtin eq for the mic, i dont know. The baggs Anthem and s an example, where they remove everything below 250hz from their mic.

Is there a link where Tommy talks about all this stuff?

Sorry, I unfortunately don't have a link. I went down a rabbit hole of viewing a number of videos where he talks about his setup. So, the information I have is sort of a collection of a number of videos, taking one piece of information from here and another from there. There is a thread in this forum that links to a number of videos where he talks about it, and those are definitely some of the videos I used, but I did research through some other ones. The one where he talks about testing a bunch of mics and settling on his favourite radio shack one, I forget where I saw it. It may have been from that thread, but I'm pretty positive it's not the same as the one where he talks about his balance between mic and pickup. He does change those between songs, depending on what sort of song it is, if it's a soft ballad type thing, or a loud song with lots of work on the body.

There may be another thread on this topic, but I definitely explored this one:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=627754


I noticed you have some videos up on YouTube with acoustic guitar magazine. I guess those are different from on your website?

[Doug Young]

Yes, I've been writing for acoustic guitar for something like 15 years now. Less these days than i used to. They publish on their site and in print for whatever they put out. My website’s just random stuff of my own. I’ve met with and interviewed Tommy for AG a few times. One of the things I've done for AG is a whole book on amplification, pickups, etc, with video demos and so on.

[Monk of Funk]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Yes, I've been writing for acoustic guitar for something like 15 years now. Less these days than i used to. They publish on their site and in print for whatever they put out. My website’s just random stuff of my own. I’ve met with and interviewed Tommy for AG a few times. One of the things I've done for AG is a whole book on amplification, pickups, etc, with video demos and so on.

That's so cool! Did you talk to him much about signal chain? I know he's relatively basic and likes to use the PA wherever he goes, basically plugs his guitar in an amp he likes and then straight to the house I think. As I recall, he doesn't even really use monitors, he just uses the PA sound.

I noticed you demoed the Miniflex 2 model 1 with AG. The one you demoed on YouTube fits through your end pin. I was under the impression that this was model 1, and that model 2 was essentially the same, except the power unit attaches to your shoulder strap where it attaches to the neck, or around there, and it sneaks in at the top of the soundhole along the neck, which actually looks really cool. That would really fit my use case super well. But, now I see you tested a model 7. It looks like that one also goes through the end pin? Are you familiar with the differences between these? Are they updates on the mics and amps? Or just fittings? The downside is that miniflex appears to be out of business right now, so I'm kind of sol on that one unless I can find something used. But it looks pretty cool. Exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. And you tested the model 7 on a Taylor 914, which should sound similar to my guitar, which is an 816ce

DPA 4099s look like great little microphones. Unfortunately out of my price range for now. Maybe some day I'll check those out though. They seem really great, not just for acoustic guitar, but useable for other stuff as well.

[Doug Young]

I dont recall much gear talk with Tommy, his brain and fingers are far more interesting. I did attend a workshop with him where he spent a lot of time on his gear. It was pretty simple. Stock maton dual source. Turn up both mic snd pickup, add soundhole plug, play thru an aer compact 60, preferably loud enough to peel paint off the walls.

Im sure whatever model number of the minifex I said was being reviewed is what it was at the time. Those things get checked with the company. Ive tried lots of ken donnels mics over the years. Hes done too many variations for me to remember. For my taste, those are a bit too clunky, too much stuff inside the guitar. The idea is intriguing, but in the end, its still a mic inside the guitar, which is just a terrible sounding location, so you still need to blend with a pickup. Some of his models support that, if i recall.

If you really want a micd sound, and your playing volume and environment allows it, its hard to beat a mic on a stand in front of the guitar. The next bet, which comes with some tradeoffs is an attachable mc. The dpa 4099, k&k meridian, bartlett, and a few others. Theres the iSolo,, which Is interesting as well.

In general, tho i, along with many here on agf, enjoy experimenting and trying lesser-known systems, theres a reason most people use a relatively small number of well-known systems - there are tried and true pickup systems out there that work well for people. The main task is figuring out which one will work for you, which mostly involves how loud you play, your playing style, and your budget.

[Monk of Funk]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I dont recall much gear talk with Tommy, his brain and fingers are far more interesting.

Fair point lol.

I did attend a workshop with him where he spent a lot of time on his gear. It was pretty simple. Stock maton dual source. Turn up both mic snd pickup, add soundhole plug, play thru an aer compact 60, preferably loud enough to peel paint off the walls.

Ya, I think it's the crazy gain that makes touching the body so loud. This is what I'm after. It's really cool I find. I know a lot of the rest of his tone comes from the maton, which I don't have, and that's ok. I'm not after sounding exactly him. I'm sure pieces of equipment would suit my guitar differently also.

I'm sure whatever model number of the minifex I said was being reviewed is what it was at the time. Those things get checked with the company. I've tried lots of ken donnels mics over the years. Hes done too many variations for me to remember. For my taste, those are a bit too clunky, too much stuff inside the guitar. The idea is intriguing, but in the end, its still a mic inside the guitar, which is just a terrible sounding location, so you still need to blend with a pickup. Some of his models support that, if i recall.

Ya, it seems terrible to me also, but those sound pretty good.an to insinuate you got the model wrong, I was just wondering if you happened to have a handle on their sort of nomenclature. I only saw model 1 and model 2 and model 7. I originally thought model one was end pin, and model 2 fit inside the guitar, but when I saw you tested model 7 which looks like it's endpin as well, then I started wondering. Maybe there was others that went over and in like the model 2.

I know what you mean about mics inside the guitar being sort of terrible, but there are some nice advantages I'm keen on. Bear in mind, I don't have much experience with these, but based on my research so far, this is what I like about them. They pickup body noise incredibly well. for some that's a negative, but if you want to do percussive stuff, that's a great plus. They also are attached to the guitar, which means you get consistent sound, no phasing issues, or suddenly losing bass or gaining bass because you move a little. Mics are surprisingly sensitive to even slight adjustments as you know. Some of the mics like the dpa 4099 do solve that part, and they're right in the nice spot where the fretboard meets the body, but for me that's a bit less desirable, because it's in the way for fingertapping on the fretboard or slapping harmonics, and it doesn't pickup the body noise like in the body mics seem to do. So, for pure sound quality, I'm in agreement with you, it's not the ideal placement, but it does have some nice perks for some players. For others, not so much lol.

If you really want a micd sound, and your playing volume and environment allows it, its hard to beat a mic on a stand in front of the guitar. The next bet, which comes with some tradeoffs is an attachable mc. The dpa 4099, k&k meridian, bartlett, and a few others. Theres the iSolo,, which Is interesting as well.

Ya, I have a few mics for that already, and I've been researching some of those as well. I've got a matched pair of pencil condensers, and a couple condensers and an SM57, but, there are a couple of others that caught my eye. I'll check out your suggestions as well. I'm unfamiliar with those.

In general, tho i, along with many here on agf, enjoy experimenting and trying lesser-known systems, theres a reason most people use a relatively small number of well-known systems - there are tried and true pickup systems out there that work well for people. The main task is figuring out which one will work for you, which mostly involves how loud you play, your playing style, and your budget.

Ya, at the end of the day it's got to come down to trial and error and personal preference I guess. Thanks for your help, and your contributions to the acoustic guitar world in general.

[Doug Young]

It sounds like your just trying to use the guitar as a drum? A mic may work, but what many people use for that is an sbt. Some, like Preston Reed, even put sensors all over the place, where they want to hit. Probably easier to control than a hot mic. Keep in mind that Tommy typically plays big rooms with very good sound systems and professional sound engineers. If that's the circuit you play, you can probably get away with a system that would be more problematic in a small venue where you are doing your own sound.

It sounds like you need to just dive in and try things to find what you want.