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  #151  
Old 10-03-2022, 01:20 PM
ewalling ewalling is online now
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Originally Posted by Joe Beamish View Post
I lived in NYC for decades. Of course everyone on the subway and other commuter transportation would read newspapers, books and magazines as a rule. And also while eating lunch out alone.

And thatís about it.

The use of devices is radically different in both kind and degree. Not only do people bury their noses in their devices while commuting, but also while having dinner with other people in their own family. And while walking down the street.

In fact, the devices are as ubiquitous as the noses we stick in them. And used just as often.

This is not necessarily 100% a bad thing. But to ignore it is silly.
I agree. The all-consuming nature of these devices is what makes them unprecedented; virtually all human experience is now transmuted through them.
  #152  
Old 10-03-2022, 03:04 PM
Steve-arino Steve-arino is offline
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"The behavior of having ones nose buried in a cell phone is not that much different than having it buried in a news paper"

I think it is very different. A newspaper is a medium that used to change daily. Magazines what - once a month? You had some time to chew on things and digest. And - although I appreciate the old subway photos (makes me smile as I'm a NYC native) look at the age range. Narrow spectrum.

Today we have little kids addicted to their smart phones. App upon app. Everything they see and hear changes constantly. It's little pieces of this and that. Opinions and thoughts that they might not have been exposed to until they were teens are now on view 24x7 and from a much earlier age. Kids deserve to live a life of innocence, at least for a while.

The all-consuming nature of these devices is what makes them unprecedented; virtually all human experience is now transmuted through them. Yep.
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  #153  
Old 10-03-2022, 08:28 PM
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And all those people reading newspapers on the old time subway were headed where? Answer: to the office. Where, for better or worse, they’re obligated to adjust to living with other human beings. The cell phone + WFH = not so much.

While I understand that correlation is not causation, common sense tells me this can’t be good for the future of a civilized society.
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  #154  
Old 10-04-2022, 04:15 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Originally Posted by ewalling View Post
I agree. The all-consuming nature of these devices is what makes them unprecedented; virtually all human experience is now transmuted through them.
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Originally Posted by Horsehockey View Post
And all those people reading newspapers on the old time subway were headed where? Answer: to the office. Where, for better or worse, they’re obligated to adjust to living with other human beings. The cell phone + WFH = not so much.

While I understand that correlation is not causation, common sense tells me this can’t be good for the future of a civilized society.
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Originally Posted by Steve-arino View Post
"The behavior of having ones nose buried in a cell phone is not that much different than having it buried in a news paper"

I think it is very different. A newspaper is a medium that used to change daily. Magazines what - once a month? You had some time to chew on things and digest. And - although I appreciate the old subway photos (makes me smile as I'm a NYC native) look at the age range. Narrow spectrum.

Today we have little kids addicted to their smart phones. App upon app. Everything they see and hear changes constantly. It's little pieces of this and that. Opinions and thoughts that they might not have been exposed to until they were teens are now on view 24x7 and from a much earlier age. Kids deserve to live a life of innocence, at least for a while.

The all-consuming nature of these devices is what makes them unprecedented; virtually all human experience is now transmuted through them. Yep.
It seems our (Homo sapiens) alternatives to the convergence of methods and technologies would be something like reversing the main elements of progress historian Yuval Noah Harari in essence covers in his book Sapiens. The main areas Stone Age through now are.

The Cognitive Revolution.
The Agricultural Revolution.
The unification of humankind.
The Scientific Revolution.

The screens and apps discussed are just more steps in the convergence. We converged hunter/gatherer into ag. Print converged storytelling (not so accurate or consistent) and pictures. Now my computer and phone are my magazines, my phone, my accountant, and for a lot of us our work toolbox.

I maintain utter nonsense on how the smartphone is somehow wrecking or harming kids. That's just bad parenting and not being responsible. How old are those problems?

If we did this reversal some think could solve all sorts of problems I'll ask: How fit and strong are you? How are those fire making, foraging, fishing and hunting skills? Are you among the modern obese?

It is utter nonsense to think screens or smartphones are harming us or kids' progress if you are not being honest about the job you do as parents. As late age parents the iPad was here for most of our kids' development. In that time I was very sleeves rolled up in different youth organizations to witness thousands of others grow with them. In pretty much all those cases kids not performing had or have pathetic parents.

Now in my work world the screen age kids are fantastic if not saviors for their skills but more important, general awareness and overall smarts at their age.

Go take stats 101 if you think the dullards among us are everyone or even most of us. If not we at least need to be more aware of the cognitive biases that are or at least for me easy to influence my perceptions and thoughts in poor ways.

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  #155  
Old 10-04-2022, 06:55 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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I donít recall seeing people reading a newspaper while driving to work, walking across the street at a busy intersection, or while eating dinner out with family or friends.
Just sayiní
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  #156  
Old 10-04-2022, 06:55 AM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is offline
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My pet peeves are those forms they make you fill out and the copays you need to shell out whenever you go to any medical facility. Whatever happened to the Hippocratic oath?
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  #157  
Old 10-04-2022, 07:42 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
I donít recall seeing people reading a newspaper while driving to work, walking across the street at a busy intersection, or while eating dinner out with family or friends.
Just sayiní
That was surprisingly common in the now decades ago time when I drove trucks and school bus. I still stop at same truck stop and motor oasis on Interstate's 90 and 94 as I did then. What I see caused me to wonder if we'd be better off if the truck drivers had their noses at newspapers as was the case then. Few of them had all the to me toxic stuff I see their noses aimed at now as my example. Same thing was and is seen in the break rooms where I work.

To be fair, I saw a lot more of the newspaper reading in those days at particular times and locations. More in the morning, and more where I did deliveries or later did IT related trips to downtown Chicago and business trips to San Francisco.

I'm totally with the matters of distraction and quality of content some take in as problems, but anger at smartphones is tilting windmills. They are primary communications, media, news, finance, commerce and organizing devices for almost 7 billion people.

Technology and automations will be the solutions to these current problems. It is started. The 2013 new car fleet mandated hands free and by coincidence was about same time for the first AEB systems. This year all cars have AEB but lots of them have added it in the past 5 or so years. Distraction mitigation systems are growing in the market, and my guess is Subaru will again force competition for safety because they have delivered at good price points.
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  #158  
Old 10-04-2022, 07:54 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-arino View Post
"The behavior of having ones nose buried in a cell phone is not that much different than having it buried in a news paper"

I think it is very different. A newspaper is a medium that used to change daily. Magazines what - once a month? You had some time to chew on things and digest. And - although I appreciate the old subway photos (makes me smile as I'm a NYC native) look at the age range. Narrow spectrum.
Actually I think you hit the nail directly on the head but overlooked it you own post. The medium has definitely changed . The rate at which you can access info and the rate at which that info changes has definitely changed. The behavior to want/desire to access it,,, not so much . That behavior tendency definitely has historical precedent, the news paper photos prove the behavior was present prior cell phones

Quote:
Today we have little kids addicted to their smart phones. App upon app. Everything they see and hear changes constantly. It's little pieces of this and that. Opinions and thoughts that they might not have been exposed to until they were teens are now on view 24x7 and from a much earlier age. Kids deserve to live a life of innocence, at least for a while.
I absolutely agree,,, and it is the parents that are solely responsible for that ,,,not medium or tech... All the parent has to do is take the phone away or curtail the use.... As a kid I was never allowed to watch unlimited TV

Quote:
The all-consuming nature of these devices is what makes them unprecedented; virtually all human experience is now transmuted through them. Yep.
Once again ... The "all consuming nature" as you perceive it,, is not in the device itself ---- it is 100% a human choice, IT IS NOT inherent in the device or the tech (which is fairly obvious when you observe the millions who use the devices and the tech) BUT ARE NOT consumed buy it.
And I have daily experiences that have absolutely nothing to do with tech devices ,,, so NO "all human experience" is definitely NOT transmuted through them .....Yes the devices and the tech are unprecedented,,but the behavior tendency definitely has "precedent" from cave paintings forward.
While I completely agree the shear convenience of the devices makes the tendency to be consumed in using them,, unprecedented in being logistically possible . BUT We should still not confuse the effect with the cause, or the symptom with disease,,, if you will.
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  #159  
Old 10-04-2022, 08:33 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Originally Posted by Neil K Walk View Post
My pet peeves are those forms they make you fill out and the copays you need to shell out whenever you go to any medical facility. Whatever happened to the Hippocratic oath?
Yes, that is an irksome matter. It doesn't really go away, but it sure seems better with the provider we changed to 3 or maybe 4 years ago now.

I cannot say enough good about moving primary or first line care to a physician and customer owned coop even though they use the same hospitals or refer for specialty care. Associates in other areas who did it all say the same. Beyond the nicer treatment, it upped better service concurrent with lower costs.

Some of our caregivers came from the other providers and say they like it too. The last physician I dealt with there said he loves reporting to the doctors and patient owned vs stockholders owned clinic network he was at prior.
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  #160  
Old 10-04-2022, 08:51 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Actually I think you hit the nail directly on the head but overlooked it you own post. The medium has definitely changed . The rate at which you can access info and the rate at which that info changes has definitely changed. The behavior to want/desire to access it,,, not so much . That behavior tendency definitely has historical precedent, the news paper photos prove the behavior was present prior cell phones

I absolutely agree,,, and it is the parents that are solely responsible for that ,,,not medium or tech... All the parent has to do is take the phone away or curtail the use.... As a kid I was never allowed to watch unlimited TV

Once again ... The "all consuming nature" as you perceive it,, is not in the device itself ---- it is 100% a human choice, IT IS NOT inherent in the device or the tech (which is blatantly obvious when you observe the millions who use the devices and the tech) BUT ARE NOT consumed buy it.
And I have daily experiences that have absolutely nothing to do with tech devices ,,, so NO "all human experience" is definitely NOT transmuted through them .....Yes the devices and the tech are unprecedented,,but the behavior tendency definitely has "precedent" from cave paintings forward.
While I completely agree the shear convenience of the devices makes the tendency to be consumed in using them,, unprecedented in being logistically possible . BUT We should still not confuse the effect with the cause, or the symptom with disease,,, if you will.
Yes a few times here.

At this point we have a smile among some family, friends and neighbors who were horrified by some of our parenting. It doesn't look like disciplined kids yet feral kids by today standards suffered from early and much exposure to screens.

Where I volunteer in a kids org with 600+ kids I see the same at scale.

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  #161  
Old 10-04-2022, 09:34 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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I practice good parenting (on myself) by removing as much news media as I can from my life. The result is a much richer life experience, lower stress and a positive outlook.
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  #162  
Old 10-04-2022, 11:13 AM
RedJoker RedJoker is offline
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I practice good parenting (on myself) by removing as much news media as I can from my life. The result is a much richer life experience, lower stress and a positive outlook.
This may sound silly to you but I'd be interested in know how you did this. My guess is just cold turkey, don't look at it kind of stuff but that's easier said than done. For instance, I'm going to be spending some time traveling for work and while I won't turn on my room tv, there will be some news channel on in the lobby, the breakfast nook, the airport, etc. I suppose I should avert my eyes each time but I usually get interested.
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  #163  
Old 10-04-2022, 11:21 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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I practice good parenting (on myself) by removing as much news media as I can from my life. The result is a much richer life experience, lower stress and a positive outlook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJoker View Post
This may sound silly to you but I'd be interested in know how you did this. My guess is just cold turkey, don't look at it kind of stuff but that's easier said than done. For instance, I'm going to be spending some time traveling for work and while I won't turn on my room tv, there will be some news channel on in the lobby, the breakfast nook, the airport, etc. I suppose I should avert my eyes each time but I usually get interested.
Very interesting in that I'd be more stressed not staying up on news. Maybe it will change when I'm retired but I doubt it. Some aspects of my work require it.

News is also carrying on what my dad who died young taught. In middle school we'd sit at the table with coffee plus The NY Times and Wall Street Journals that were mailed to him in those days. He encouraged reading same news - not opinion - from both first and then any opinion and editorial. I still do that and forever thank him.

If TV or that pundits mess, I don't do that. I'll catch bits of TV in break rooms or when I travel.
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  #164  
Old 10-04-2022, 12:28 PM
ewalling ewalling is online now
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Actually I think you hit the nail directly on the head but overlooked it you own post. The medium has definitely changed . The rate at which you can access info and the rate at which that info changes has definitely changed. The behavior to want/desire to access it,,, not so much . That behavior tendency definitely has historical precedent, the news paper photos prove the behavior was present prior cell phones

I absolutely agree,,, and it is the parents that are solely responsible for that ,,,not medium or tech... All the parent has to do is take the phone away or curtail the use.... As a kid I was never allowed to watch unlimited TV

Once again ... The "all consuming nature" as you perceive it,, is not in the device itself ---- it is 100% a human choice, IT IS NOT inherent in the device or the tech (which is fairly obvious when you observe the millions who use the devices and the tech) BUT ARE NOT consumed buy it.
And I have daily experiences that have absolutely nothing to do with tech devices ,,, so NO "all human experience" is definitely NOT transmuted through them .....Yes the devices and the tech are unprecedented,,but the behavior tendency definitely has "precedent" from cave paintings forward.
While I completely agree the shear convenience of the devices makes the tendency to be consumed in using them,, unprecedented in being logistically possible . BUT We should still not confuse the effect with the cause, or the symptom with disease,,, if you will.
These gentlemen doth protest too much, methinks!
  #165  
Old 10-04-2022, 04:36 PM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Originally Posted by RedJoker View Post
This may sound silly to you but I'd be interested in know how you did this. My guess is just cold turkey, don't look at it kind of stuff but that's easier said than done. For instance, I'm going to be spending some time traveling for work and while I won't turn on my room tv, there will be some news channel on in the lobby, the breakfast nook, the airport, etc. I suppose I should avert my eyes each time but I usually get interested.
Not silly at all. I am retired now, but when I was working, I was a news junkie for business and personal reasons. I spent many hours traveling, both by automobile and planes and obviously being in hotels. The media is everywhere in those circumstances so it’s tough even if you wish to abstain.
Now that I am retired, it is much easier to ignore all of that claptrap…and I do.

Now then, my viewpoint and practices are looked upon in disdain by many. I’m considered selfish and irresponsible ostrich with my head in the sand. Well, it’s my life and my choice and those opinions have no effect on me. That’s pretty healthy IMHO.
Staying away from the 24/7 droning of the “news media” has proven to affect nothing negative for me. Notice the word “affect”.
I finally realized that there wasn’t one single thing I could do about all the things that were happening in the world other than those events in my immediate circle, so bye-bye CNN, Fox, CBS, MSNBC, PBS…all of you
What a light-bulb moment!

As far as your situation, maybe you could start by tapering back your intake.
When you retire, you will be in a better position to cease entirely if you wish. Don’t worry, whether you like it or not, everyone around you will keep you posted…trust me. That has proven more than sufficient for me.
Good luck, I hope you can wean yourself away if that’s what you wish.
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Last edited by rokdog49; 10-04-2022 at 04:46 PM.
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