songwriting

Imperfectly · #1 12-02-2001, 02:21 PM

songwriting is long enjoyable jounrney for me. to me, original innovations as well as insight is what music is all about. i am curious to hear how all of you go about writing music. what comes first for you, the lyrics, the music, a beat, some kind of inspiration? for me i seem to go through spurts. at times lyrics and poetry seem to flow and i have lots of ideas for songs. other times i can innovate and find quality progressions and riffs on the guitar. the problem i have is that these two periods hardly ever overlap and most of the time my lyrics and music don't go together much at all. not to mention the difficulty i have finding a melody to make it all come together. it's very frustrating. but maybe it's because i have a twenty year olds experiences and i can only sord of play guitar.

Any tips?

JW · #2 12-02-2001, 07:20 PM

I start all my songs on three chords and just let the lyrics flow the when I have the lyrics down I work on the notes. When i have the basic melody down on the first part of the song or the basic blueprint I widen out the scale of that first set of lyrics then its nothing but words of thought. Write about life experiance and it will just come to you. Ive learned to put myself in what i call my song world where I put myself into these bad situations or good ones. I was a dreamer in school but my early poetry was good. My teacher said "James where are you at" In my world id reply. I vist it frequetly. You dont have to be a good player to be a good songwriter. Just dream, JW

joe white · #3 12-02-2001, 09:46 PM

Ah yes, the mystical art of songwriting. My very best songs write themselves. I usually like to get away in my studio where it is quiet and let the song come to me. Just noodling around with chords, maybe throw on a capo for a different flavor but I rarely force the song. If it doesn't just flow I figure theres nothing there. ALWAYS have a small simple recording device handy, just as fast as a beautiful melody can come to you, that same beautiful melody or chord progression can go away. Don't get upset if you experience a dry spell. I just came off a 4 month one and I thought I would never get another song. I have written two great ones in the past week. Don't be afraid to experiment and write whatever comes out. Aw heck, I could go for ever on this one.

JW · #4 12-03-2001, 07:46 AM

getgo your right that a great song can get away from you as fast as it comes. I have to keep a small pad and pen with me at all times because of I just cant remember everything I have to. it comes in handy when that really good song just hits me out the blue. I can just be thinknig and ramble singing and Bop! there it is. And alike I go through spells where nothing clicks. I find I write best when Im emotionly charged could be good or bad. It would take a lifetime to bring it all into perspective so I explain it one song at the time. JW

bagelsgirl · #5 12-03-2001, 09:38 AM

I actually tried for a long time to write catchy, commercial sounding songs. Not crummy songs- but good ones that would just have a broad appeal. You know, I perform a lot, and I just thought it would be nice to have some songs that all kinds of different people/ different age groups could relate to... well, I have quit trying to write songs for other people now, because they are just awful songs.

The "good" songs I have written are the ones I wrote with no thoughts of anybody ever hearing or liking them. Like the first poster (sorry, I forgot who it was!) I have a lot of good lyrics and good music that came out alone and don't go ever together with anything else. But all my finished songs came out with lyrics and music all at once, and usually pretty fast in writing...20 minutes to 2 hours maybe...

I am just working now on accepting the fact that I am this kind of songwriter...the songs are a bit strange.... but I guess they are more honest than the awful ones I wrote when I was trying to be "mainstream"-

david_m · #6 12-03-2001, 01:58 PM

My take on songwriting is a bit different. My voice is not a strong suit, so it is actually quite rare for me to write songs with lyrics. I do 90% instrumental songs. Sometimes I will sit down with my guitar with the express intention of writing a song, and sometimes I just like to play and see what happens. I've had success and failure with both methods.

Eventhough I think the melody is by far the most imprtant element in songwriting I usually start with a chord progression. I try to keep the initial chord progression pretty simple. A vast majority of wetern music (pop, rock, jazz, classical, etc.) are based on a I IV and V. I'll pick a key, a meter and start with the I IV and V. The melody is primarliy contained within the chords, so I start trying to find a melody within the key and meter I have selected. As the melody begins to be defined the harmonic structure follows suit. This basically means as the melody gets more definition I start to play with the chords a little more to make the song interesting. I'll take the basic melody that sprang from the simple chord progression and start using chord substitutions and inversions to fill the song out.

The absolute best thing I can mention (especially for solo guitar instrumental music) is to move the bass line. The more interesting the bass line accompanying the melody the stronger the overall composition will be. This is something I've been working on. Mark Hanson is an abosulte master at this. Check out his arrangement of Winter Wonderland. That is simply some of the best bass movement I've ever seen (or heard) over a pretty and simple melody.

Try to stretch yourself. I once decided to write a song in a specific key, but I only wanted to play the tonic as the last chord in the song. It was frustrating, but fun and overall very satisfying to do this. I ended up writing a song in E flat major, but I only play an E flat chord as the last chord in the song. This was how I learned about using chord substitutions (use a vi minor7 instead of I, etc.).

Of course I've never sold a song in my life. Three chords and a good story will always be more popular than interesting harmony.

mapletrees · #7 12-03-2001, 06:35 PM

david_m,

I like Mark Hanson, too.

I've got some of his instructional stuff on vinyl.

If you spin it backwards at precisely 22 17/19 rpm you can very clearly hear him repeatedly say in a low and evil voice (with metronome clicking incessantly)...

"When you type, type alot."
"When you type, type alot."

it seems to be getting tbondo and Eric_H, too...hasn't seem to gotten SteveMc yet...

david_m · #8 12-07-2001, 12:19 PM

Okay,

This reply will be short ;-)

Mapletrees, you make me laugh!

JW · #9 12-08-2001, 11:19 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bagelsgirl:
[QB]The "good" songs I have written are the ones I wrote with no thoughts of anybody ever hearing or liking them. Like the first poster (sorry, I forgot who it was!) I have a lot of good lyrics and good music that came out alone and don't go ever together with anything else. But all my finished songs came out with lyrics and music all at once, and usually pretty fast in writing...20 minutes to 2 hours maybe...

QUOTE]That was me, but explaining how I write is much more difficult than write the song itself. Its more like the song has to be born. I come to the words as I work and just sing blabbering then all of a sudden Im singing a song. Quick I must write it down! then I may add or edit but then i have to put music with it. Starting with just a basic chord progression I work from there. I have a lot of instummentals that have no words and I cant seem to just put words to them. With the lyrics I can really move on it because I know what the song feels like or just what emotion it has so I can follow that emotion with the right note. Confused? Youre not alone. I could never teach a songwriting class. Its been a gift but I just dont know how to share it. JW

Atlantis · #10 12-08-2001, 05:52 PM

I always keep paper and a pen next to my bed. How many of you have awakened at 3:00 AM to scribble down lyrics or tab out that melody in your head that just woke you up? I wrote a song about 9/11 at that hour of the morning while I was half asleep. After writing it all down, I went back to sleep, woke up about 5 hours later, and was amazed at what I had come up with! VERY WEIRD!! Anybody else ever have this happen??

The best of my songwriting projects seem to be when I'm not trying!?!

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: Atlantis ]

bnjp · #11 12-08-2001, 06:14 PM

I think songwriting is a gift. I don't have the gift! I've been so amazed by friends that can write creative songs. All my songs end with "doo be doo be doo". I try to write all the time, because I love playing the songs so much, but like I said, it's a gift and I guess I'm just gifted in other ways. You guys keep writing cool songs for me to play and sing!